East Noble restructuring plan

[james_t]

We have a story today on the East Noble restructuring plan announced last night. The highlights:

1) LaOtto Elementary would close

2) All 7th and 8th graders would attend East Noble Middle School in what is now Kendallville Middle School

3) The remaining elementaries would become K-6

4) The district would save $925,000 per year

Full story here:
http://www.fwdailynews1.com/articles/2009/02/11/news/latest/newssun/hid172441sect_d33d00af95da752d44.txt

Video here:
http://www.fwnews.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=3&video=225

Any thoughts?

[edeevee]

Wow, James. It's a lot to take in. What do YOU think about this?

[james_t]

Wow, James. It's a lot to take in. What do YOU think about this?

My wife and I talked about it afterward. In terms of how it would impact our kids - our middle and youngest sons would get an extra year before being bumped up to middle school, which isn't a bad thing. From what Ann Linson said they will have to do something or they will be in dire financial straits by 2010. They're hoping to not have to actually cut staff - just not fill retirements, etc. - and it sounds like with combining some of the smaller classes they have at Rome City they will avoid having to increase class sizes.

I think if I lived in LaOtto I would probably feel a lot more negatively. No one I've ever met wants their community school to become an empty building.

[edeevee]

I think if I lived in LaOtto I would probably feel a lot more negatively. No one I've ever met wants their community school to become an empty building.

Yeah. I was just at LaOtto yesterday. It's such a great school community there. Shame to see it go.

I agree, keeping your kids out of the middle school an extra year is a positive. But. That middle school is, well, horrendous. I'd hate to see all the kids in our district have to go there.

Probably the best option though.

[Rockstarr]

From some of the stories I've heard about the middle school, it seems it would definately be about time to be getting a resource officer or two involved if there isn't already.

[james_t]

From some of the stories I've heard about the middle school, it seems it would definately be about time to be getting a resource officer or two involved if there isn't already.

One of those in attendance brought up that idea, but it doesn't sound like at this point there are the funds to do it.

Here is a link to a PDF of the presentation that was given:

http://www1.eastnoble.net/Docs/Challenge_09PDF.pdf

[dandn5000]

But really, though, the other two middle schools don't have the same reputation. If we follow with the assumption that the students at RC and Avilla are better behaved(which I'm not convinced is necessarily true), KMS(or the new ENMS) will probably improve, at least somewhat, because the "better" kids at RC and Avilla would dilute out the "problem" kids at KMS.

But with there being all the kids of that age group in one building, I can see hiring a resource officer. Maybe Sgt. Dixon could become full-time and split his time between the buildings? Either that or hire another part-timer.

Also, as I recall, LaOtto was either next on the list to be renovated, or it was to be after Rome City. Maybe the funds that were going to eventually go there can now go to the KMS building? As I recall, they need more lockers for the added kids, and air conditioning is also a concern. And what are they going to do with LaOtto's new playground equipment? It's less than a year old. Personally, I'm all for shipping it up to Wayne Center and saving that cost.

And it is sad to see LaOtto go. I didn't go there, but I know plenty of people that did, and most loved it and are sad to see it close as well. Alas, sometimes things have to happen that we don't like.

[Rockstarr]

It looks like they will have an extra $900,000+ that they could use to pay for 1 or 2.

[George]

Ultimately, even though it may be a few years, there will be a new middle school building. There goes the savings!

[james_t]

Ultimately, even though it may be a few years, there will be a new middle school building. There goes the savings!

The school board's reply was a rather emphatic "no" to that question at the meeting.

Not that I don't see it happening, but I would guess that both that and the resource officer will wait until the district doesn't feel it's facing a fiscal crisis.

[ltzheather]

But really, though, the other two middle schools don't have the same reputation. If we follow with the assumption that the students at RC and Avilla are better behaved(which I'm not convinced is necessarily true), KMS(or the new ENMS) will probably improve, at least somewhat, because the "better" kids at RC and Avilla would dilute out the "problem" kids at KMS.

I do recall students at KMS being unruly while I was there years ago, but part of that has to do with the structure of the school. We weren't all bad kids, we just lacked structure for the most part. It seemed like a lack of direction from home also played a part in KMS's bad rep. We need higher standards in our schools in my opinion. (and higher standards at home) It's about integrity and respect, which should be shown between both parties.

[Chaos11]

Good For East Noble. This sounds like a good plan. Maybe they should have discssed this a few years back.

Almost 1 mill in savings........that has to take the weight off the check book.

One of my questions, wayne center(old) and Laotto will both be vacant. What does East Noble plan for these buildings. I would hardly think they could sell them. Who or what company could use that type of a building? Could East Noble eventually start a better special needs school for specific types of special needs children?

The K-6 is a great idea, 6th graders are still a bit to young to be with 8th graders. This I can see taking care of some problems.

As far as the "trouble kids" at KMS, this has a lot to do with parenting and school administraters. A friend of mine has a 7th grader at KMS, he was beat up pretty bad not to long ago and had to go to the hospital. The hospital had to call the police for a report and charges. The Principal told my friend that reporting battery and other crimes to the police is not their responsibility, it falls on the parents.
How can an administrater (principal or other wise) say that this(crimes) are the parents responsibility when the incidnet happened at the school? I don't have a child in that grade yet, i can only hope they get a better principal in there before my child has to go there.


Another idea, keep the K-6 idea and take the 7-8 graders to the high school and make it a true juinor high school, thus saving the kids a another switch to a school. Changing one time instead of two times. would this save more money? Is the High School big enough? Just a thought?............


Well with anything thing they do, it sounds like it will work out for the school corp.

[dandn5000]

Good For East Noble. This sounds like a good plan. Maybe they should have discssed this a few years back.

Almost 1 mill in savings........that has to take the weight off the check book.

One of my questions, wayne center(old) and Laotto will both be vacant. What does East Noble plan for these buildings. I would hardly think they could sell them. Who or what company could use that type of a building? Could East Noble eventually start a better special needs school for specific types of special needs children?

The K-6 is a great idea, 6th graders are still a bit to young to be with 8th graders. This I can see taking care of some problems.

As far as the "trouble kids" at KMS, this has a lot to do with parenting and school administraters. A friend of mine has a 7th grader at KMS, he was beat up pretty bad not to long ago and had to go to the hospital. The hospital had to call the police for a report and charges. The Principal told my friend that reporting battery and other crimes to the police is not their responsibility, it falls on the parents.
How can an administrater (principal or other wise) say that this(crimes) are the parents responsibility when the incidnet happened at the school? I don't have a child in that grade yet, i can only hope they get a better principal in there before my child has to go there.


Another idea, keep the K-6 idea and take the 7-8 graders to the high school and make it a true juinor high school, thus saving the kids a another switch to a school. Changing one time instead of two times. would this save more money? Is the High School big enough? Just a thought?............


Well with anything thing they do, it sounds like it will work out for the school corp.

The junior high idea at East Noble wouldn't work. The high school as-is isn't starved for space, but it really couldn't handle a large population boom, such as would occur with two more grades. That would be close to six hundred kids being added to the building. It would require many more classrooms, more fine arts rooms, probably another gym, and more athletic fields. There simply isn't the land available at the high school campus to put into effect such a change. If they were to decide to close the high school and purchase a large parcel of land north or south of Kendallville, it might be possible, but it still wouldn't be likely. The high school certainly isn't decrepit, and it functions well for the teachers and students alike.

I do think that if they decide to make a single junior high/middle school/whatever, it will get easier for the kids at high school. They'll know most of their classmates, plus there should be less variation in instruction between the teachers. As it is now, it's always a question of "Did the Rome City kids cover this already? What about the Avilla kids? and the KMS students? What about the parochial kids?" Tightening it up to one middle school should make it much easier for the teachers to make what they teach equivalent between all their classes will make that question much easier to answer.

And I agree - if they decide to merge the middle schools, they had better not just keep the KMS administration as-is without evaluation. If they're cutting administrators, they need to scrutinize all of them and decide who is the most effective for the job. It wouldn't be Rome City and Avilla kids going to KMS, it would be East Noble kids going to the East Noble middle school, and the administrators need to reflect that.

[edeevee]

I don't have a child in that grade yet, i can only hope they get a better principal in there before my child has to go there.



I don't want to bash the principal at the middle school. He is a good man who cares about the kids and tries to do right by them. Middle school is a difficult age -- it's when bullying hits its peak. Any time you cram that many kids of that age into one building with the normal ratio of kids:adults it ain't gonna be pretty.

Having said that, I believe there has been a pervasive element of elitism in that school for a very long time. Kids who come from established Kendallville families, or from "teacher" families, kids who are better off financially or who excel at sports are assumed to be the "good" kids and kids who are not so fortunate have to jockey for the rest of the positions. Added to that, there is little tolerance for differences there.

East Noble Schools have adopted the Character Counts program to instill core values in its students -- but until the adults at the middle school take a hard look at their own prejudices, I don't think things will get much better.

[james_t]

I don't want to bash the principal at the middle school. He is a good man who cares about the kids and tries to do right by them.

I haven't had much interaction with Mr. Taylor since my eldest started at KMS last year - it's probably a good thing that it hasn't been necessary ;) - but what I have had to this point has been positive.

[Chaos11]

I don't want to bash the principal at the middle school. He is a good man who cares about the kids and tries to do right by them.


If he cares about the kids why does he do nothing to help them in their time of need. Time after time the "bully" kids get away with everything. If a kid defends himself from an attack he too is suspended from school. Why is a "victim" being punished for the "bullies" antics.

Why do they not alert the authorities on such actions so the authorities can start an investigation while all kids are still at school. No, they would rather hide behind their doors and send everybody home and let someone else clean up the mess left behind. They say it is the parents responsibilites to file a complaint from a incident at the school. So if a kid (god forbid) is stabbed by another student they will not call.........that is my understanding. Crimes are crimes, yes some more severe than others but when a child is sent to the hospital and received 8 stitches from another "bully", wouldnt you think that is severe enough to call??

I would surley hope that all parents of middle school students who have been victimized by another to a point it becomes a crime would want the SCHOOL to take the approiate action and call the authorities.

[edeevee]

If he cares about the kids why does he do nothing to help them in their time of need. Time after time the "bully" kids get away with everything. If a kid defends himself from an attack he too is suspended from school. Why is a "victim" being punished for the "bullies" antics.

Why do they not alert the authorities on such actions so the authorities can start an investigation while all kids are still at school. No, they would rather hide behind their doors and send everybody home and let someone else clean up the mess left behind. They say it is the parents responsibilites to file a complaint from a incident at the school. So if a kid (god forbid) is stabbed by another student they will not call.........that is my understanding. Crimes are crimes, yes some more severe than others but when a child is sent to the hospital and received 8 stitches from another "bully", wouldnt you think that is severe enough to call??

I would surely hope that all parents of middle school students who have been victimized by another to a point it becomes a crime would want the SCHOOL to take the approiate action and call the authorities.

These are valid questions and bullying seems to be a serious problem at the middle school. Kids should have a right to feel safe at school and if your kid (or was it a relative?) isn't safe, then adults need to step in and make sure things change.

Everyone who cares about the kid could make an appointment to go to the school. Go armed with facts. Who is doing the bullying, what is happening, where it is happening and when. Don't go with an attitude of anger though, go with an attitude of 'How can we be a part of solving this problem?'

Ask to see the school's safety plan. They are required to have one and it is required to address bullying. Listen to what the principal and others have to say. Work together to figure out how to keep the kid safe. Keep up your side of the agreement and expect the school to keep up their side.

If problems persist, go to a school board meeting. Again, you don't want to show anger, just genuine concern -- and not just for your kid, but for all kids. Bullying hurts everyone: the victims, the kids who witness it, even the bullies. We need to do everything we can to stop it.

[james_t]

We have video online from the meeting at LaOtto last night:

http://www.fwnews.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=3&video=239

[dandn5000]

We have video online from the meeting at LaOtto last night:

http://www.fwnews.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=3&video=239

Watching that video brought up another idea to me: Why couldn't they ditch the full day kindergarten, consolidate the middle schools and still keep LaOtto open? This sounds like a much less drastic measure to me, and it makes a fair bit more sense. The closing of a school is something that can't be undone in years to come - I'd imagine that once closed, the district would not later consider reopening LaOtto. They could simply shuffle the kids around. Besides, the more that I look into it, the more I see that the combined middle school does have some merit to it besides merely monetary value. If they moved all the 7-8th graders to KMS, they could probably reinstate the old practice of having advanced eighth graders take high schools courses at the high school. I have a friend that went to Avilla and took geometry at the high school as an eighth grader, but they stopped doing that. I'd imagine it would be much easier busing these kids a few blocks than a few miles. Also, the kids would know more of the people in their class by the time they move up to the high school. It also would probably make the instruction more aligned with each other among all the grades. Yes, there would still be issues, but in a few years if they decide the need is no longer there and it isn't working, they could change things back to the way they are now without too much hassle. If LaOtto is closed, there's no going back.

[james_t]

Here's a second video from LaOtto:

http://www.fwnews.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=3&video=241

Also an article today about Kendallville Middle School:

http://www.fwdailynews1.com/articles/2009/02/25/news/latest/newssun/hid185661sect_d33d00af95da752d44.txt

One question about the comment left on the KMS story: I couldn't find any YouTube video of KMS period, much less video of a fight there. Does anyone else know anything about it?

[turk68z88]

ive tried to keep up with eastnoble consolidation discusion, the powers that be, dont seem very open to alternative ideas. front page of news sun today is about disipline, seems it missed the boat, e.n. has some responsible individuals, and some not so,incharge of the hallways. it appears to me that it is much easier to hide when students have a problem, than to fix it.
i have experienced first hand,east noble consolidation in the 60's, listened to the sales pitch when they tried to build one middle school at wayne center, and have yet to see where any of these great plans have helped any student to be any more than another number.
my children were bullied at avilla, there was smoke and mirrors, NO response.
two of my step children goto east noble for social time, no calls from teachers when home work is behind.
my step son goes to st. marys, avilla, where he is known and answrs to all.
avilla before consolidation was like st marys is today.
consolidation can be referenced to the letter to the editor recently from hamilton schools, smaller many times is better, your plans have yet to convince me of any real consideration for our children.
has anyone ever punched into thier calculator, the amount of students riding buses, times the average length of bas ride a day? try it , now do you want to have more chldren bused farther?
lets try smaller schools, and bus the teachers. lets try smaller schools and us the internet or tv to transfer lectures and demonstrations.
lets have a solution that isnt dependent on fuel prices staying down.
thanks
turk68z88

[edeevee]

smaller many times is better

I agree. It would be wonderful if we could go back to true neighborhood schools, with one or maybe two classrooms per grade. But if we say LaOtto school is the ideal size at 144 students, then East Noble needs about 13 small elementary schools. I think East Noble would love to do that. I believe (in a cross my heart and hope to die kind of way) that just about everyone I have met who has anything to do with our school district holds what's best for our children close to their heart.

The problem is: How do you pay for small schools? It's not just the building or the classroom teachers. It's music, art and gym teachers, reading specialists and guidance counselors. It's principals, nurses, administrative assistants, lunch servers and janitors too.

We can have the kind of schools we want -- but we would have to be willing to pay for them. Are we? I doubt it.

[james_t]

We can have the kind of schools we want -- but we would have to be willing to pay for them. Are we? I doubt it.

Before we moved to Indiana the school district we lived in was one of the better ones in our corner of the Chicago suburbs. But our property taxes on a 1600-foot, three-bedroom, 33-year-old house were over $5,000 per year, and all indications were that the school district was going to be asking for more property tax hikes in the not-too-distant future because the district was growing so rapidly and they needed to build more schools. We'd have been priced out of our house before long.

A little to the east in Naperville, which probably has the best schools in the state of Illinois, I would guess property taxes on a similar house would be closer to $10,000. Naperville's percentage of assessed value for taxes wasn't that much higher, but the property values were much higher because it was such a sought-after area.

[james_t]

East Noble announced it is shifting some principals around:

http://www.fwdailynews1.com/articles/2009/03/16/news/latest/newssun/hid201476sect_d33d00af95da752d44.txt

[blue adept]

blue adept is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Special Education at Country Meadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyk View Post
I do not know anything about this situation, but I know that budgets have been extremely tight at all school districts, and my guess would be that they would be discontinuing special education there because of that. I understand that most special education in DeKalb Central district is located at JR Watson in Auburn, so my guess would be that the special education kids at Country Meadow would go to JR Watson instead. But, like I said, that's just my guess, and I really don't have any special knowledge of the situation.




I have a question, when I went to school at East Noble, our class was one of the largest they have ever had, but back then the superintendent did the job that now takes, what 5 people? Why is our school bureaucracy so top heavy? In addition, every one of these bureaucrats has their own secretary.
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[james_t]

I have a question, when I went to school at East Noble, our class was one of the largest they have ever had, but back then the superintendent did the job that now takes, what 5 people? Why is our school bureaucracy so top heavy? In addition, every one of these bureaucrats has their own secretary.

I can't say for sure since I've only been involved with East Noble a couple years, but one of the things that was mentioned at the public meetings was the EN's administrative staff is actually smaller than those of other similarly-sized districts in the area.

If I had to guess, I would think it's because of all the governmental oversight/mandates schools have these days: NCLB, gifted, special ed, etc. My wife was a school nurse for a year before we moved here and just about drowned under all the state-mandated paperwork she had to do.