Golf carts can not be operated on county roads

[downperiscope]

Something does need to done with golf carts on roads in Steuben county. On the road that we live on there is a mobile home park that sits across from Captain's Cabin. During the summer golf carts run constantly in that area. There are people driving back and forth between the park and Captain's. There are kids driving golf carts who I am sure do not have a driver's license. They drive on the wrong side of the road and do not let you know that they are turning into the park. They are out after dark with no lights on. I am amazed that no one had gotten hurt really bad. But I will say its not so much the kids that are the biggest offenders, its the adults.

This is a road that goes around our lake. It is not a campground.

I guess my question is if they are out after dark or they are driving on the wrong side of the road and someone hits one with a car, who is going to be at fault???

I guess when someone gets hurt then they will notice that they are not driving in a campground.

[Mrs.Slotz]

I feel your pain. I do not think they should be allowed either. It is very dangerous. God forbid, if you accidentally ran into one. I have no idea who they would blame. My guess, probably the driver of the automobile.

I have the same issue with scooters going down 427 in Auburn. They should not be riding them in a 55 mile zone. I do not mean mo-peds, i mean, scooters.

[evilkumquat]

I have a problem with golf carts being outlawed on county roads while bicycles and Rascal scooters are allowed. This seems like selective prosecution, much like that suffered by cell phone users inside cars.

If the danger of golf carts is that they can be hit by larger vehicles, how is that any different than the danger faced by bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, pedestrians, etc.? What is it specifically about golf carts that make them so much more objectionable?

Cell phones are treated much the same way. People want to ban their use inside vehicles as too "distracting" to drivers, and yet while radios, televisions and even conversations with passengers can be just as problematic, no one is demanding they be restricted.

[RaceFan]

I have a problem with golf carts being outlawed on county roads while bicycles and Rascal scooters are allowed. This seems like selective prosecution, much like that suffered by cell phone users inside cars.

If the danger of golf carts is that they can be hit by larger vehicles, how is that any different than the danger faced by bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, pedestrians, etc.? What is it specifically about golf carts that make them so much more objectionable?

Cell phones are treated much the same way. People want to ban their use inside vehicles as too "distracting" to drivers, and yet while radios, televisions and even conversations with passengers can be just as problematic, no one is demanding they be restricted.


I agree, why not just make sure the people driving the golf carts have a driver license and give tickets to the ones that are being careless. Why ban them. If we ban everything that some people don't use correctly we'll have nothing. Oh My Geeeeeeeeeezers we won't have any form of transportation!

[matt_s]

I have a problem with golf carts being outlawed on county roads while bicycles and Rascal scooters are allowed. This seems like selective prosecution, much like that suffered by cell phone users inside cars.

If the danger of golf carts is that they can be hit by larger vehicles, how is that any different than the danger faced by bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, pedestrians, etc.? What is it specifically about golf carts that make them so much more objectionable?

Cell phones are treated much the same way. People want to ban their use inside vehicles as too "distracting" to drivers, and yet while radios, televisions and even conversations with passengers can be just as problematic, no one is demanding they be restricted.

Golf carts are intended/capable of carrying multiple people and are governed as vehicles.

The scooters are mobility assistance devices and are intended for a single person and I believe are governed by pedestrian rules. They are also much more similar in footprint/size to a pedestrian.

From a practical standpoint, they aren't any more or less dangerous than a scooter or pedestrian if they are hit, but I would argue their size really makes them more susceptible to being hit.

[JoeHooker]

I have a problem with golf carts being outlawed on county roads while bicycles and Rascal scooters are allowed. This seems like selective prosecution, much like that suffered by cell phone users inside cars.

If the danger of golf carts is that they can be hit by larger vehicles, how is that any different than the danger faced by bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, pedestrians, etc.? What is it specifically about golf carts that make them so much more objectionable?

Cell phones are treated much the same way. People want to ban their use inside vehicles as too "distracting" to drivers, and yet while radios, televisions and even conversations with passengers can be just as problematic, no one is demanding they be restricted.


:ridinghorse: :ridinghorse:
Pedestrians, bicycles, tractors, trains, horses & many other modes of transportation existed long before cars & trucks did. So the ONLY roads they can legally be banned from are our interstate highways (which were built specifacally for the interstate travel of higher speed motor vehicles). ANYTHING invented after the automobile though is fair game for legally banning from our roads.
I don't know whether that seems fair or not, but it is how the legal system works.
Joe

[michael medeski]

Why ban them.

i thought they were already banned.

[nathandiehl]

:ridinghorse: :ridinghorse:
Pedestrians, bicycles, tractors, trains, horses & many other modes of transportation existed long before cars & trucks did. So the ONLY roads they can legally be banned from are our interstate highways (which were built specifacally for the interstate travel of higher speed motor vehicles). ANYTHING invented after the automobile though is fair game for legally banning from our roads.
I don't know whether that seems fair or not, but it is how the legal system works.
Joe

That is incorrect.
A municipality has Home Rule, and can ban or allow any types of vehicles they determine from their streets/roads (as long as it doesn't violate a specific state statute).
State roads such as US6 and US20, are governed by the state (specifically INDOT), and even when the road goes through a municipality, it is still a state road, and the municipality does not have Home Rule on the road, nor the road right-of-way, interestingly.

But within a municipality, the municipality has Home Rule (less state roads), definitely.

[downperiscope]

When I said something should be done I did not necessarily mean that they should be banned.

I guess what I am trying to say is if you are going to own one then be responsible.

Observe the rules of the road.
Don't drink and drive a golf cart on a road.
Don't allow children to drive your golf cart on a road if they are not old enough to drive a motorized vehicle.
If you are going to be driving after dark equip your cart with lights and even possibly turn signals.
Respect other people's rights.
Don't pull out in front of a motorized vehicle and then give the driver a dirty look because you were not observing the rules of the road.


The place on our road where I am talking about is highly congested anyway.
The speed limit is reduced in that area just for that very reason.

That does not mean because the speed is reduced that it is an open invitation to have golf carts darting back and forth across the street in front of vehicles and pedestrians.

Even bicycles have rules on our roadways.

Everyone likes to have a great time but do not do it the expense of other people's safety.

Drive responsibly

[evilkumquat]

That is incorrect.
A municipality has Home Rule, and can ban or allow any types of vehicles they determine from their streets/roads (as long as it doesn't violate a specific state statute).
State roads such as US6 and US20, are governed by the state (specifically INDOT), and even when the road goes through a municipality, it is still a state road, and the municipality does not have Home Rule on the road, nor the road right-of-way, interestingly.

But within a municipality, the municipality has Home Rule (less state roads), definitely.

All the more reason why the Angola Downtown Project's overt goal of "reducing truck traffic" by making the Square harder to navigate is just ASKING for trouble.

It isn't up to the city to try and enforce traffic on a State or Federal highway.

What would keep a trucking firm from complaining to the proper authorities and bringing suit against the city for obstructing legal traffic? What if the city spent these millions of dollars in "revitalization" only to end up having to spend even more money bringing the Square back in line?

This is a bit off topic, I know, but Nathan's observation is apt in this situation as well.

[michael medeski]

When I said something should be done I did not necessarily mean that they should be banned.

I guess what I am trying to say is if you are going to own one then be responsibly.

Observe the rules of the road.
Don't drink and drive a golf cart on a road.
Don't allow children to drive your golf cart on a road if they are not old enough to drive a motorized vehicle.
If you are going to be driving after dark equip your cart with lights and even possibly turn signals.
Respect other people's rights.
Don't pull out in front of a motorized vehicle and then give the driver a dirty look because you were not observing the rules of the road.


The place on our road where I am talking about is highly congested anyway.
The speed limit is reduced in that area just for that very reason.

That does not mean because the speed is reduced that it is an open invitation to have golf carts darting back and forth across the street in front of vehicles and pedestrians.

Even bicycles have rules on our roadways.

Everyone likes to have a great time but do not do it the expense of other people's safety.

Drive responsibly

when you live by a campground that is the type of things you deal with i guess. isn't beer, camper and golf cart, required for camping now? it used to be just a tent, beer, fire and food. it's funny what some people call camping.
i don't see why one would need a golf cart unless your golfing. even then you don't "need"one.

this reminds me of my neighbor that bought a riding mower to mow his garage size lot. he trims with the push mower first and then spends 10 min trying to start riding mower, when he could of had it done with the push mower it the time he takes to start it. i suppose some people would just rather sit on their butt.

i guess i'm a little biased because i've been told many times to keep my atv of the road (that goes the speed limit) yet golf carts get the ok. i agree with evil, if your going to allow one thing why not allow everything.

[evilkumquat]

i guess i'm a little biased because i've been told many times to keep my atv of the road (that goes the speed limit) yet golf carts get the ok. i agree with evil, if your going to allow one thing why not allow everything.

It would depend upon the impact of the vehicle in question as to whether or not it should be banned. If an ATV caused undo wear and tear on asphalt roads, or spit a lot of rocks on gravel ones, I could understand the distinction.

I still haven't heard a good argument as to what sets golf carts apart from bicycles, scooters or pedestrians apart from that they are slightly bigger and thus provide a bigger target.

It seems to me that if a car is going to be likely to hit a golf cart, it would stand as much chance of hitting a bicycle in the same location.

It also just occurred to me that Amish buggies aren't banned, yet don't they take up more space than a golf cart? What about farmers moving tractors across fields? They are allowed to do so, yet they impede traffic behind them even more so than a much smaller golf cart.

For some reason, golf carts just seem to hit some primal, prejudicial trigger for many people... possibly because they were first used by elitist WASPs playing a traditionally elitist, WASPish "sport", just like car phones were once the sole purview of elitist, self-important douchebags?

[michael medeski]

It would depend upon the impact of the vehicle in question as to whether or not it should be banned. If an ATV caused undo wear and tear on asphalt roads, or spit a lot of rocks on gravel ones, I could understand the distinction.



i agree. solution: road tires. although i don't think it would make a difference. you can "spit rocks" just as bad with a car or truck.

[michael medeski]

For some reason, golf carts just seem to hit some primal, prejudicial trigger for many people... possibly because they were first used by elitist WASPs playing a traditionally elitist, WASPish "sport", just like car phones were once the sole purview of elitist, self-important douchebags?

i think it's because your not driving them for recreation. people drive them because they are lazy.

[evilkumquat]

i agree. solution: road tires. although i don't think it would make a difference. you can "spit rocks" just as bad with a car or truck.

Of course.

I only used that as a possible example for the reasoning since I know absolutely nothing about ATVs.

Hell, maybe ATVs suffer from an image problem as well from all the idiots who like tearing up their neighbor's grass?

[downperiscope]

I don't believe that the mobile home park across from Captain's Cabin is a campground. Unless somebody knows something a lot of us don't.

I know a lot of people only come to the lake in the summer. Maybe they feel it is like camping.

People will say if you don't like what goes on, move.

Some people think that only rich people live on or near a lake.

We have neighbors who live here all year around like we do. In the winter they get their snowmobiles out but they do not take them on our roadways. They take them somewhere and ride on trails. I asked the neighbor once why they didn't take them on the road since its a rural area. He said way too dangerous.

Our family is not rich, we have just been here a long time.

Maybe this year just seemed worse with the golf cart issue. Not sure. Maybe its because we live near the lake. Not sure.

Every year from the time it gets warm we deal with every day being the 4th of July at the lake with the fireworks.

No I don't live at or near the lake because I am rich or because I want to feel like I am vacationing all of the time or that every day is the 4th of July. I live there because we bought our home at a very affordable price years and years ago.

You comment about the golf carts and golfing are very true. In some instances I can see where they are beneficial. Like I said I am not saying ban them.

Lets just be responsible, be safe and respect the rights of others!

[michael medeski]

I know a lot of people only come to the lake in the summer. Maybe they feel it is like camping.

People will say if you don't like what goes on, move.

Some people think that only rich people live on or near a lake.



my bad. i thought we were talking about a campground and golf carts. maybe that was another thread. either way, it does not matter where they originate from.

i don't recall anyone questioning your income. what does that have to do with golf carts on the road?

[RaceFan]

We are allowed to use our John Deere Gator at the campground we go to because golf carts are allowed. It is just a glorified golf cart since it's only a 4x2 Gator.
But they do have rules for the carts that you have to go by and one of them is that you must have a driver's license to operate one.

And they must have lights for at night.

They are very strict about the golf cart rules.
It is nice to go up to the camp store to get firewood or such instead of using your vehicle. And I guess you could say it's a lazy way of gettin around.
They have golf cart poker runs on Saturday nights to make it fun.

[michael medeski]

They are very strict about the golf cart rules.

as they should be. is there any rule about keeping them in the park/campground?

[nathandiehl]

I still haven't heard a good argument as to what sets golf carts apart from bicycles, scooters or pedestrians apart from that they are slightly bigger and thus provide a bigger target.

I'll try forming an argument to this. Not that I agree...
I am neither for nor against this argument, simply answering the question. :)

-A scooter is similar to a wheelchair. ADA probably guarantees the right to use a scooter anywhere that a pedestrian is allowed. I would then, think scooters/pedestrians are the same category in the argument.

-Saying a golf cart is 'slightly bigger' than a bike is probably an understatement. A bike is about 18" wide. A typical golf cart is nearly 48" wide. That's a big difference, not a 'slight' difference. Thus I would suggest that the width argument isn't a 'slight,' but a significant issue.

-As for bicycles and golf carts, golf carts are powered recreational vehicles. A bike is a manual mode of transportation. Thus a difference there. A powered vehicle is treated, and governed, as a 'motor vehicle' and minimum safety requirements are REQUIRED for motor vehicles. The manual mode of transportation, then, is not subject to the minimum safety requirements of a motor vehicle.

There, that's my attempt at making a brief logical argument.

[JohnBoy44]

We are allowed to use our John Deere Gator at the campground we go to because golf carts are allowed. It is just a glorified golf cart since it's only a 4x2 Gator.
But they do have rules for the carts that you have to go by and one of them is that you must have a driver's license to operate one.

And they must have lights for at night.

They are very strict about the golf cart rules.
It is nice to go up to the camp store to get firewood or such instead of using your vehicle. And I guess you could say it's a lazy way of gettin around.
They have golf cart poker runs on Saturday nights to make it fun.

I wonder what the propensity of obese people using golf carts instead of walking or biking is? We make the Amish get license plates and lights for their buggies. We should do the same to all other stuff people are playing with in the roads, and their insurance should jump. risky behaviour.

[michael medeski]

I wonder what the propensity of obese people using golf carts instead of walking or biking is?

:hmmmm: good question.

[Charles]

My neighbor/cousin plows most of the other neighbors side walks and drive ways on our road with his ATV. just down from the legion in k-ville. he was also asked to plow Chris's auto on main st. he was told he HAS to trailer his ATV to chris's auto or he would be ticketed every time he was stopped. i believe he was told this on a day that hammered us with snow as he was driving it over to Chris's... just seems a little funny he cant go a block, if that, the plow... i see lawn mowers drivin down the road to mow someone else's yard all the time... and my cousin does this in the early morning before he goes to work... you gotta abide by the rules, but come on...

[downperiscope]

You are right and I am sorry about the income comment. No one said anything about income except me. But it seems to me that some people do associate income with lakes.

I've heard numerous people make comments about "you must have money if you live at the lake!"

I used to think that about people in campgrounds who had golf carts to run around on. To me it was a luxury. So I guess I am guilty too.

I do not want to step on people's toes. I just want everyone to be safe, especially kids.


Yes JohnBoy44 that is a very good question!

[Mrs.Slotz]

They might not be as safe as they look.

http://desmoines.injuryboard.com/property-owners-liability-slip-and-fall/1000-golfcart-accidents-per-month.aspx?googleid=269932

[RaceFan]

It will turn out to be just like everything you use out there, People who are careless will ruin it for everyone that is careful.
Just look at the caution label on a gasoline can that tells you to not drink gasoline because it will kill you. Now someone had to do that to get the safety label put on there in the first place. Common sense plays into everything a person does.

[matt_s]

They might not be as safe as they look.

Considering they don't look particularly safe to me, that's not a good thing.

[RaceFan]

Considering they don't look particularly safe to me, that's not a good thing.

The ones that are mostly unsafe at high speeds are the ones that are raised up with the larger tires because it throws off their original balance.

[flatbird1]

When I said something should be done I did not necessarily mean that they should be banned.

I guess what I am trying to say is if you are going to own one then be responsible.

Observe the rules of the road.
Don't drink and drive a golf cart on a road.
Don't allow children to drive your golf cart on a road if they are not old enough to drive a motorized vehicle.
If you are going to be driving after dark equip your cart with lights and even possibly turn signals.
Respect other people's rights.
Don't pull out in front of a motorized vehicle and then give the driver a dirty look because you were not observing the rules of t



The place on our road where I am talking about is highly congested anyway.
The speed limit is reduced in that area just for that very reason.

That does not mean because the speed is reduced that it is an open invitation to have golf carts darting back and forth across the street in front of vehicles and pedestrians.

Even bicycles have rules on our roadways.

Everyone likes to have a great time but do not do it the expense of other people's safety.

Drive responsibly

Do not let people drive if they are not old enough to drink.

[nathandiehl]

Do not let people drive if they are not old enough to drink.

Are you advocating we change the legal driving age to 21?

[HoosierHelen]

Are you advocating we change the legal driving age to 21?

Let us poll how many parents of 16+ yr olds choose to not allow their children to drive to school events and jobs because they are not of legal drinking age?

I don't know how to start a poll on here, but I'll certainly vote...let these kids drive, have jobs, and show up at their school events.

Drinking should wait until legal age. Good Grief...what is this even the question??

[evilkumquat]

Let us poll how many parents of 16+ yr olds choose to not allow their children to drive to school events and jobs because they are not of legal drinking age?

I don't know how to start a poll on here, but I'll certainly vote...let these kids drive, have jobs, and show up at their school events.

Drinking should wait until legal age. Good Grief...what is this even the question??

I dislike the current laws as they apply to the "legal age" for things.

You can get your permit to drive at fifteen.

You can get your driver's license (with some restrictions) and have sex with an adult (under most circumstances) at sixteen.

You can get an unrestricted driver's license, vote, get drafted and enlist at eighteen.

You can legally purchase and imbibe alcohol at twenty-one.

You can rent a car at twenty-five.

However, you can also get tried as an adult for certain offenses at eleven.

WTF kind of crazy, mixed up country where this kind of ambiguity is allowed?

I know that some young people are much more mature for their age. I know that plenty over age forty can't be trusted with anything.

For obvious reasons, society has to set some mandatory number as the age where one must take personal responsibility, but for crying out loud, pick ONE number and stick to it!

[Night Owl]

The scooters are mobility assistance devices and are intended for a single person and I believe are governed by pedestrian rules.
What about "scooters" driving down the street? I see it several times a week.




WTF kind of crazy, mixed up country where this kind of ambiguity is allowed?


Many of your questions are auto related...maybe the insurance industry had something to do with it? :driver:

[RaceFan]

[QUOTE=Night Owl;50524]What about "scooters" driving down the street? I see it several times a week.



I think that is dangerous. I'd say for them to use the sidewalk but some of the curbs are too high for their wheels to go over without tipping over. Maybe they should have one of those orange ATV flags with a long pole.

[evilkumquat]

Many of your questions are auto related...maybe the insurance industry had something to do with it? :driver:

Sure makes it obvious who's REALLY running the country, huh?

Incidentally, sort of related, yet not quite on topic:

16-year-old charged as adult in burglary case
Written by By Jim Shilander jims@kpcnews.net
Thursday, 24 September 2009 00:00

ANGOLA — A 16-year-old Angola boy is being charged as an adult and faces up to 20 years in prison in connection with an alleged burglary committed Aug. 1.

Nathan Allen Lundgren was formally charged in Steuben Superior Court Wednesday with Class B felony burglary, which was switched from juvenile court due to the severity of the crime alleged.

http://www.heraldrepublicanonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3142:16-year-old-charged-as-adult-in-burglary-case&catid=51:latest&Itemid=53

[matt_s]

What about "scooters" driving down the street? I see it several times a week.
I see them all the time too. Especially here in Auburn around Wal Mart. I think they need to do something to make them more visible, but I guess I don't see them as any different than a person walking down the road. I would prefer that they stay on sidewalks, but they don't exist everywhere. So, anywhere a pedestrian is allowed to go I guess i don't have a problem with the scooters going.

[Night Owl]

Maybe they should have one of those orange ATV flags with a long pole.

Thats a great idea!

[HoosierHelen]

I see them all the time too. Especially here in Auburn around Wal Mart. I think they need to do something to make them more visible, but I guess I don't see them as any different than a person walking down the road. I would prefer that they stay on sidewalks, but they don't exist everywhere. So, anywhere a pedestrian is allowed to go I guess i don't have a problem with the scooters going.

I've never had a scooter driver offend me. I have no problem with scooters going where pedestrians go. Let us all keep on moving on!!