O'Shay's Shooting

[tdl_auburn]

After reading this article, I'm curious what kind of security O'Shay's has and where they get their training. Does anyone have any information about their security?

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101107/LOCAL07/101109581/-1/LOCAL11

[tdl_auburn]

The reason I ask is that many clubs and bars hire people with very little security background, prefering to hire big burly guys that look intimidating. These guys may even be tough and can hold their own against a drunk patron who has no balance and vomits easily with a good sqare punch to their beer gut, but when it comes to providing real security, they often fail.

Smaller bars and taverns often look more to a regular patron to help them out when they need someone tossed out of the bar. They typically don't like to get the police involved because then they'll typically lose that peron's business, which, to a small business can be a noticeable loss. Also, when the police get involved, tensions can escelate.

But when you start dealing with larger establishment's that get upwards around 100 patrons or more at one time, serious security issues start to become more of a concern. You can't hire some tall, burly guy to guard the door. That is not security. It's often nice to have a guy or two like that on your security staff when simple intimidation is enough. But what you really require are people who can think fast on their feet and know how to calm people down. Most bar fights are just due to drunken stupidy over something minor that someone took offense to. Some are due to fights over women. Some are just due to common rivalries that get out of hand when people have had a vew drinks. Respected bartenders can often calm people down with a threat of kicking them out, but when you get into larger establishments it's not as easy because these patrons don't develop as close a relationship with the staff.

There is training you can receive that help you recognize when a person may be carrying a concealed weapon. People who don't typically carry often show signs that they are or might be. And unless the person is serious about how they carry a concealed weapon, they often don't wear the right clothes to conceal it properly. But as I said, proper training can help a person recognize it. Often, it's common sense. But until you understand what to look for, it's difficult to figure out on your own. Training also helps security recognize when situations are beginning to escalate so they can intervene before things get out of hand. Often a person entering the establishment with the intention of hurting someone else can show outter signs. But again, only proper training and experience can assist security in recognizing it...unless of course the person walks in with a weapon drawn. Then it's pretty obvious.

With the economy the way it is and with tensions high over politics right now, it would be prudent for these kinds of establishments to seriously reconsider their level of security. Security in military or police-like uniforms is a bad idea. But a simple black polo with the word "security" on the back and on one side of the chest can help people identify them when they need assistance. My own personal recommendation would be one in the parking lot, one at the door, and 1 roaming. All with radios. They should be friends and approachable, but be able to think quickly on their feet and know how to talk people down. If the police need to be called, that's always an option, but if things can be handled "in house" patrons will appreciate it a lot more.

[HoosierHelen]

TDL,

I'm convinced much of what you recommend for trained security for a club such as this would be better than large untrained hairy thugs at the door. That seems reasonable, however, still it seems a bit light weight for clubs who can reasonably expect to receive customers with concealed weapons? I haven't been to a nightclub in so long, my memory fails me for my last visit.

That being said, I saw on Channel 15 today that this is the 2nd fatal shooting incident this year at this particular nightclub. Pretty obvious if they intend on staying in business they need to seriously upgrade their security. I'm not clear why you wouldn't suggest FW Police or Allen County Sheriff employees for the job. Seems to me that would send a clear message to the customers that there will be no illegals activities in this club? But then....perhaps that is not the image they wish to put out front? Who knows? Not me.

[tdl_auburn]

Now the owner is blaming the police department because they won't provide him with off duty police officers for security. This is a private business. He's responsible for providing his own security. He chose that neighborhood and it's gang subjected neighborhood. Hire private security. That's cheaper than using off duty police and you can find security specfically trained for this type of operation.

[Mrs.Slotz]

What happened is just horrible. You would have thought after the first incident they would have had no choice but to take better security measures. One thing that bothered me was that the victim's mother said he was out celebrating the birth of his new son. AT 2 AM, come on. Now he is dead and the child is left without a father. He should have stayed home with his new baby and the baby's mother. I mean no disrespect, but, I am just saying, Good Father's should stay home with their children.

[kmouse]

Blame the cops, blame O'Shay's, blame the area. How about live by gun and gang, die by gun and gang?

[Mrs.Slotz]

Blame the cops, blame O'Shay's, blame the area. How about live by gun and gang, die by gun and gang?

So, this shooting was gang related?

[tdl_auburn]

So, this shooting was gang related?

That's the skuttle-butt.

[dirtycopper]

95% of the shootings in FORT WAYNE are GANG RELATED.

[HoosierHelen]

Blame the cops, blame O'Shay's, blame the area. How about live by gun and gang, die by gun and gang?

Yes! That is the real truth Kmouse. Stay away from gangs!

Honestly, the area of the club isn't that bad. I shop at Kohl's across the street frequently with never a problem.

The AM news reported that FW Police will not serve off duty at this club because the owner (George something or other) does not enforce reasonable club rules? Why the owner of a club would not take necessary security precautions probably deserves a reporters investigation on it's own?

At this point, anyone choosing an evening out at a club and decides to make their choice to be O'Shay's has questionable judgment to say the least.

[HoosierHelen]

95% of the shootings in FORT WAYNE are GANG RELATED.

I do not understand why you chose the title of 'DirtyCopper' and it is certainly your secret to keep. I will share with you that a cousin of mine was a for real 'Dirty Cop' in Atlanta, GA. There is no pride in that status.

The picture you have chosen for your profile is repulsive to me as a citizen. Perhaps you find a reward in it that is oblivious to me?

[Mr Douglas]

After reading this article, I'm curious what kind of security O'Shay's has and where they get their training. Does anyone have any information about their security?

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101107/LOCAL07/101109581/-1/LOCAL11
Bunch of fat college kids that think they know Jujitsu.

[HoosierHelen]

Bunch of fat college kids that think they know Jujitsu.

Good Grief Douglas....does this look like a bunch of fat college kids playing Jujitsu to you?

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101109/LOCAL07/311099979

[Graygleam]

95% of the shootings in FORT WAYNE are GANG RELATED.

Fact or opinion ?

[tdl_auburn]

Bunch of fat college kids that think they know Jujitsu.

Branch Manager told me that our company got a call from them asking for quotes. Looks like they're interested in upping their security. Problem is the liabiltiy for a job like that is pretty high and companies will only put guards out there if the club will take care of the liability.

[LuciusBeebe]

Maybe they have shootings because they're named "ricochets".

[HoosierHelen]

Maybe they have shootings because they're named \"ricochets\".

Ouch! Good one LB!

[dirtycopper]

I do not understand why you chose the title of 'DirtyCopper' and it is certainly your secret to keep. I will share with you that a cousin of mine was a for real 'Dirty Cop' in Atlanta, GA. There is no pride in that status.

The picture you have chosen for your profile is repulsive to me as a citizen. Perhaps you find a reward in it that is oblivious to me?

WOW, LIGHTEN UP LADY.........

Have you not read the spats between blue and I about police in general????? Before I was a member here I would read the posts and I became a member to have my input on these posts about so called "dirty cops". However my name that I chose was not about a dirty cop at all it was from another reason, (had something to do with jewelry). The picture for my profile is that of a scene in the movie super troopers. If you have not seen the movie I would like to suggest that you do see it. It is pretty funny and the moral of the story is that of good cops and bad cops.

If you feel that I am a cop then fine, I have stated in the past that I am not a police officer. But I have family that are in this line of work.

I have had my run in's with the law as I have stated in the past, so I feel I have good opinion on police in general.

If it repulses you then don't look at it, for now it is my picture, deal with it.

Respectfully,

DIRTY

[dirtycopper]

Fact or opinion ?

do you read the FW papers? Im sure if you look at all the names of the victims and then cross reference them with the public court records your eyes will be opened as to the types of people that are being killed and who are doing the killing. If it's not (you) one week it could be the next, thats the way it is down there. It isn't just coincidence that most of these shootings are in the SE side of Fort Wayne. It is sad that a city the size of FW has 20 plus homicides a year. Seems like alot for 260,000 people.

[dirtycopper]

Fact or opinion ?

Look at the conviction a couple of weeks ago in which two males shot and killed another male because they thought it was the target, only to find out it was the target's younger brother that had nothing to do with anything. The two male who were convicted of murder, gang members.

[Graygleam]

do you read the FW papers? Im sure if you look at all the names of the victims and then cross reference them with the public court records your eyes will be opened as to the types of people that are being killed and who are doing the killing. If it's not (you) one week it could be the next, thats the way it is down there. It isn't just coincidence that most of these shootings are in the SE side of Fort Wayne. It is sad that a city the size of FW has 20 plus homicides a year. Seems like alot for 260,000 people.

I wasn't arguing, just wondering if there is concrete evidence that a full 95% is gang related.

[LuciusBeebe]

The picture for my profile is that of a scene in the movie super troopers.

Littering and....
Littering and...
Littering and...

[HoosierHelen]

I seriously hope that they are able to convict those who did commit these murders.

Tonight I was at Kohl's at Northcrest. I looked over in the direction of BroadRipples (Rick O'Shay's) as I was leaving. They did have a sizeable number of cars in their parking lot. Apparently they have a loyal following who is not concerned about their personal safety? Whatever!

[LuciusBeebe]

Apparently they have a loyal following who is not concerned about their personal safety? Whatever!

We be clubbin' til the day we die.

-Ice Cube

[blue adept]

Dude, why do you pull that on people? You're like a high school teacher who constantly demands resources to everything people say. It was clearly an exageration but a way of saying it seems like most in FW are gang related. Don't be a prick to people.

And you aren't being?

[blue adept]

WOW, LIGHTEN UP LADY.........

Have you not read the spats between blue and I about police in general????? Before I was a member here I would read the posts and I became a member to have my input on these posts about so called "dirty cops". However my name that I chose was not about a dirty cop at all it was from another reason, (had something to do with jewelry). The picture for my profile is that of a scene in the movie super troopers. If you have not seen the movie I would like to suggest that you do see it. It is pretty funny and the moral of the story is that of good cops and bad cops.

If you feel that I am a cop then fine, I have stated in the past that I am not a police officer. But I have family that are in this line of work.

I have had my run in's with the law as I have stated in the past, so I feel I have good opinion on police in general.

If it repulses you then don't look at it, for now it is my picture, deal with it.

Respectfully,

DIRTY

I have read them, you think that all citizens are ignorant of all the good things the police do, and the dangerous ones. I believe the same, however, I like to shine the light on bad cops, they are like rats, they cannot stand the light, they run and hide, some even try to put out the light, or the person that turned it on in the first place. You like to call me cop hater, all because I point out that there are other possibilities, and some of them are unpleasnet to think about. I too have friends and family that are cops, and I have seen both sides, and I would like to see cops in general not policing themselves.