Rove blames Congress for the War in Iraq

[LuciusBeebe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTqACtWRJT0

Advance to about 40 seconds into the clip.

Rove is now saying the Bush Administration was opposed to the war in 2002.

More on the topic here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/rove-congress-pushed-bu_b_74039.html

Seriously, I always knew he thinks Americans are stupid, but I had no idea HOW stupid he thinks we are.

[james_t]

Stupid enough to buy his book, apparently, since he's pretty obviously shilling for it.

[Night Fire]

Rove is now saying the Bush Administration was opposed to the war in 2002.

Seriously, I always knew he thinks Americans are stupid, but I had no idea HOW stupid he thinks we are.

The entire Bush administration is known for acting like all Americans are idiots.

[evilkumquat]

I think if Rove were ever to come into physical contact with the truth, the resultant explosion would shatter this quadrant of the galaxy.

Evil Kumquat

[troublesome one]

As opposed the the nirvana bestowed upon us by the paragons of truth, the Clintons and their henchman James Carville.

(BTW, the Clintons KNOW all Americans are idiots. They only have to glance at their poll-driven popularity and realize that you can commit perjury in fromt of a grand jury and be considered a hero.)

[LuciusBeebe]

If you don't see a difference between a lie that results in a war and a lie to cover up infidelity... then no, you won't ever see a difference between Clinton and Bush. And you certainly won't understand why Clinton's popularity didn't take a hit after his perjury was paraded across the news as if people will ever give a hoot about someone else's sex life.

[troublesome one]

I do understand the difference, but Lady Justice is blind to the subject of the perjury. It's called the rule of law.

How about the "lie" of the Gulf of Tonkin incident? Johnson deliberately lied and lost 58,000 killed. Democrats lie all the time (Al Sharpton about Tawana Brawley, Clinton, Henry Cisneros about his mistress payments) but are impervious to media scrutiny.

The continued success of **** like Us magazine, People, The Star, Access Hollywood, EXTRA!, et. al. show people are, unfortunately, interested in others' sex lives.

[matt_s]

Interested, sure people are interested in the sex lives of public figures. Interested doesn't mean that when it is aired out in public like the laundry, it will necesarily be an item that people base their opinions of public figures on. I know several people that felt that the scandal humanized both Clinton and the office of the President (I wanted to say position but felt that may have been misconstrued).

I think the whole incident forced many people to look at the president and their own situations and decide to what extent they held the President to a higher standard on both a personal and professional basis. The 2008 election may be too soon, but given the volume of skeletons that gets hauled out the closet over the course of a campaign, I think very soon we will start to see more politicians running without the squeaky clean images that we have become use to.

[LuciusBeebe]

Democrats lie all the time (Al Sharpton about Tawana Brawley, Clinton, Henry Cisneros about his mistress payments) but are impervious to media scrutiny.

Really? Then how do you know about it?

[james_t]

If you don't see a difference between a lie that results in a war and a lie to cover up infidelity... then no, you won't ever see a difference between Clinton and Bush.

OK, maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't know as I would concede that Bush deliberately lied about Iraq. He was obviously dead wrong about it - as were a number of Congress people on both parties - and it would be nice if he'd go ahead and admit it (not that I'm expecting that), but none of the people who would really know whether it was a deliberate lie, bad intel, groupthink, bad advice or just plain stupidity are saying what led to the decision to invade Iraq.

[LuciusBeebe]

OK, maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't know as I would concede that Bush deliberately lied about Iraq.

If you lay out a case for something, saying it is fact, and it turns out not to be true, is it not a lie?

[james_t]

If you lay out a case for something, saying it is fact, and it turns out not to be true, is it not a lie?

Nope. If I'm working a problem in calculus (something I have not done in about 20 years), and I lay out my case for what I believe the answer is, but my answer is later proven incorrect, I haven't been lying - I made a mistake. If I deliberately tell the guy next to me the wrong answer when I know what the right one is, then I'm lying.

[LuciusBeebe]

So when Colin Powell addresses the UN, and says Saddam has WMD's, and we know exactly where they are... and they aren't there. Then what do you call it?

I suppose its semantics. One could say "lie", the other will say "mistaken". I say that if you go to war over it, its a lie.

[james_t]

I suppose its semantics.

Not so much that, but motive. Was there a deliberate untruth put out there, or were the facts given as known, then later proven to be incorrect?

And obviously, whether mistake or lie, the stakes were a lot higher in the decision to go to war. And even if somehow things do work out OK over there, the original decision was, at the very least, gravely flawed.

[LuciusBeebe]

Not so much that, but motive. Was there a deliberate untruth put out there, or were the facts given as known, then later proven to be incorrect?

The Axis of Evil tells me all I need to know about whether they believed, or cared, that the information was accurate.

[evilkumquat]

The Downing Street Memo showed that "intelligence" was being cherrypicked at the time for a war with Saddam, and the Bush Administration had already decided to strike and was only looking for a marketing strategy to sell it to the rest of the world.

This pretty much indicates everything Bush and his cabal had to say at the time was a pack of lies.

Evil Kumquat

[james_t]

The Downing Street Memo showed that "intelligence" was being cherrypicked at the time for a war with Saddam ...

I wouldn't have to go farther than some threads here on Fence Post to find ample evidence that people can very easily pick and choose facts to support what they sincerely believe is true.

(Standard disclaimer - this is a general statement and not directed at anyone in particular... In fact, you could probably accuse me of it at various points.)

[LuciusBeebe]

I wouldn't have to go farther than some threads here on Fence Post to find ample evidence that people can very easily pick and choose facts to support what they sincerely believe is true.

And there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is the Bush Administration's facts were wrong. Facts do have the binary state of being true or false. In the case of the lead up to war, the facts provided were false. The quibble point is whether a person believes that the BA knew the facts were false and used them anyway.

Personally, I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you, James. The intentions behind false information are the distinction between what is a lie and what is a mistake. Where you and I may differ is I believe the BA knowingly used false facts to get what they wanted. To me, they lied. To others, they were simply wrong.

[james_t]

Where you and I may differ is I believe the BA knowingly used false facts to get what they wanted. To me, they lied. To others, they were simply wrong.

And for my part, I would be unable to make the argument that it was only a mistake, since I don't have access to the inside of anyone's head to find out exactly what they were thinking.

And you are correct that it's only a quibble point. Whether the administration knew there weren't WMD or not, in the end they were not there and there's now a huge mess to work out.

[Night Fire]

The problem is the Bush Administration's facts were wrong. Facts do have the binary state of being true or false. In the case of the lead up to war, the facts provided were false. ......................................
They were worse than just false, they were knowingly fabricated with the intent to pass them off as the truth!
Where you and I may differ is I believe the BA knowingly used false facts to get what they wanted.

See we do agree on some things!

[Night Fire]

So when Colin Powell addresses the UN, and says Saddam has WMD's, and we know exactly where they are... and they aren't there. Then what do you call it?

I suppose its semantics. One could say "lie", the other will say "mistaken". I say that if you go to war over it, its a lie.

But even Colin Powell sys that he was deceived by Bush and Rove.


Not to bring up a bad subject, but how many here think that Bush may have been behind 9/11?

[troublesome one]

Of course he was. His father's old CIA cohorts trained the hijackers at the behest of the Trilateral Commission in order to feed the nefarious militaty-industrial complex.

Bush also masterminded the Kennedy assassination (it was in Texas after all), was responsible for the disappearance of Amelia Earheart, and Karl Rove obviously personally seeded the clouds that caused Hurricane Katrina.

What right-minded individual could possibly think any differently?

[LuciusBeebe]

Not to bring up a bad subject, but how many here think that Bush may have been behind 9/11?

Not this guy.

[armyda]

Not to bring up a bad subject, but how many here think that Bush may have been behind 9/11?

Naw, I don't believe that, but I bet he was behind the plot to 3-Lane N. Wayne :D

[troublesome one]

How about this?

The person occupying the White House is actually a robot! Notice stilted speech and slightly vacant look?

Back when Bill Clinton was telling the people in Arkansas that he would NEVER leave them to run for the White House (yeah, right), he knew that his major competitor was just to the south in Texas. Then, when he became president and Hillary's healthcare plan tanked, he knew Bush would win in 2000. So he embarked on a secret project in Area 51 to construct a Bush robot!

The whole plan was to have him blow eight years and have the people CLAMOR for Hillary to save them. Then Bill would be back in the driver's seat (or the back seat, if ya know what I mean).

No THERE'S a conspiracy for ya! :)

[james_t]

The person occupying the White House is actually a robot! Notice stilted speech and slightly vacant look?

Back when Bill Clinton was telling the people in Arkansas that he would NEVER leave them to run for the White House (yeah, right), he knew that his major competitor was just to the south in Texas. Then, when he became president and Hillary's healthcare plan tanked, he knew Bush would win in 2000. So he embarked on a secret project in Area 51 to construct a Bush robot!

No doubt Al Gore was an early, less human-appearing model.

[armyda]

No doubt Al Gore was an early, less human-appearing model.

That would explain the "created the Internet" reference.

[Copycatted]

That would explain the "created the Internet" reference.

WHOA,now that one of my most favorite guys' name has been invoked. Well NOT so much that his NAME was invoked but about his CREATION.

Though I've this secret I hope no young ones keeps up with this political STUFF (because I am NOT to good at keeping goodies to myself!) But my secret is that I THINK I know just WHO SANTA REALLY IS!

Some of my U.S.M.C. job waaaaaaaay back in the seventies involved using an keyboard before keyboards were such household names so here's MY secret of just WHO it is I BELIEVE that Santa must REALLY be (because) THAT would make me one of his many,many,many,many,many,MANY Toy Makers!

But sure do luuuuuuv his work NOW. Kind of do it myself when not juggl'n the books to keep an roof over my head,no PUNS intended.

Well,THERE WAS THE ONE:)

[LuciusBeebe]

That would explain the "created the Internet" reference.

Not that old myth...

He never said it, folks.

[Night Fire]

That would explain the "created the Internet" reference.

That is not a conspiracy, TECHNICAL POINT "he did create the internet"
He was the politician that wrote the bill to create funding for what is now the web.

[james_t]

I think armyda was just continuing the joke, however, per Snopes, here is Gore's exact quote, from an interview with Wolf Blitzer:

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

For more:

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

[Copycatted]

here is Gore's exact quote, from an interview with Wolf Blitzer:

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

I left that part out though what I had always supposed it to be james_t. But I just ran with him as Santa for the time of the season:)

But writing of running,this doesn't do my high school diploma any justice :)/:( but say he or anyone else should decide to run for the Presidency in 08,anyone know when's the latest and as what,an write in that they can file with the FEC or is it just a State by State thing or is it to late for any of that?

Just heard today he has said no way but there's an online petition for him to.