Homeschooling children

[james_t]

But do you agree that they should get raises based on merit, much like the rest of us in our jobs? If I did my job like some teachers do, I'd be canned in a heartbeat.

I think that's the struggle schools are going through at the moment. I agree with your statement, but the question is who decides what constitutes merit? If it's up to the principals or any other school staff, there's a huge danger that the process becomes too politicized.

That's what gave birth to the whole No Child Left Behind thing - people/the government wanted accountability from the schools. When the schools scream about being made accountable, I have very little sympathy - the lack of accountability in any profession opens it up to problems. But the down side is you have schools teaching to a test, and I'm not sure that's a great solution either.

How do you decide what constitutes academic progress and who gets rewarded?

[matt_s]

Given the variety of learning styles and interests of students (and often parents), is progress simply forward motion from a fixed point or is it only measured as attainment of certain goals.

Does a fifth grader progressing from reading at a 1st grade level to a 3rd grade level in one year count as progress or is it not counted until that student can read at a 5th grade level (assuming he/she is still in 5th grade) how do you measure these things? Who measures these things?

It's not an easy solution and at this point I'd hate to see anything that could dissuade people from wanting to be teachers. Of course there has to be a solution for those who simply can't teach or take advantage of their position.

[ebbieday]

If it's up to the principals or any other school staff, there's a huge danger that the process becomes too politicized...


How do you decide what constitutes academic progress and who gets rewarded?

Well you have to admit that schools are all politics anyway...they always have been. What's in a name? You decide.

I think for a large part of the process, the kids and parents should decide who does and doesn't deserve merit. After all, who are the ones who feel the long term effects of a teacher that does not care for a certain child or care to put forth a little extra to help that kid and make them feel stupid or like they don't fit in. That's right...the student. Teachers pick their "cliques" of students too and they don't even have to say a word. Their actions, expressions and interactions (or lack of) tell a kid all they need to know and that never leaves a person. The saying goes, "People may forget what you say to them, but they will never forget how you made them FEEL."

[james_t]

I think for a large part of the process, the kids and parents should decide who does and doesn't deserve merit. After all, who are the ones who feel the long term effects of a teacher that does not care for a certain child or care to put forth a little extra to help that kid and make them feel stupid or like they don't fit in. That's right...the student. Teachers pick their "cliques" of students too and they don't even have to say a word. Their actions, expressions and interactions (or lack of) tell a kid all they need to know and that never leaves a person. The saying goes, "People may forget what you say to them, but they will never forget how you made them FEEL."

Problem is, that system would be open to abuse too. You get someone who doesn't think their little angel - who, no doubt, is the next Einstein, Mother Teresa and Babe Ruth rolled into one - is capable of causing trouble in class and decides they and all their friends need to do what they can to punish that miserable teacher, and you're going to have good teachers bailing quickly. Parents can play politics, too.

[matt_s]

I'm also sure that having students grade their teachers is a pretty futile effort. Let's just say that until they are older they are probably grading with a different set of criteria than the teacher probably wants to be graded by.

I don't know the correct way to determine compensation. My sister is a teacher and even she acknowledges that pretty much every plan she has heard people talk about involves structural disincentives somewhere in the plan and leaves one group or another open to exploitation.

[ebbieday]

Problem is, that system would be open to abuse too. You get someone who doesn't think their little angel - who, no doubt, is the next Einstein, Mother Teresa and Babe Ruth rolled into one - is capable of causing trouble in class and decides they and all their friends need to do what they can to punish that miserable teacher, and you're going to have good teachers bailing quickly. Parents can play politics, too.

Oh no doubt about that. I know my kid is a little sneak and has attitude. I just wish more people would really think about what it means to be a good teacher before entering the profession. I've always known I would never be cut out for the job.

[james_t]

Oh no doubt about that. I know my kid is a little sneak and has attitude. I just wish more people would really think about what it means to be a good teacher before entering the profession. I've always known I would never be cut out for the job.

I wasn't pointing fingers (don't think you took it that way), just making general observations based on some parents I've known.

I agree with not being cut out for the job. I was a teaching major right up until it came time for student teaching, and I suddenly realized that I had no clue how to make those bored high school faces looking at me enjoy "The Red Badge of Courage."

(Wow, first calculus comes up in the discussion and now this. I'll have my whole college transcript posted by the end of the day.)

[Ligonite]

We have homeschooled our children from the beginning. I have one in college this year, with more headed that way in the next few years. There are a number of homeschool groups in the area (NWAHE is one) along with some cottage-type classes for enrichment.

Feel free to drop me a private message if you have specific questions.

[ebbieday]

We have homeschooled our children from the beginning. I have one in college this year, with more headed that way in the next few years. There are a number of homeschool groups in the area (NWAHE is one) along with some cottage-type classes for enrichment.

Feel free to drop me a private message if you have specific questions.

Can you tell me some of the advantages of this for a child who is struggling as far as becoming interested in even doing the work. Public school really hasn't done any favors in this regard.

[Ligonite]

Can you tell me some of the advantages of this for a child who is struggling as far as becoming interested in even doing the work. Public school really hasn't done any favors in this regard.

Well, when the student-to-teacher ratio is reduced to 1:1 (or 2:1, or 3:1, or anything less than the classroom ratio of more than 20:1) then the student will be getting more individualized instruction. Certainly, every single thing that is taught need not be extremely "interesting" (there is value in developing patience and attention span, to be sure), but adapting the learning to the mode or interest of the child will help make the experience more effective. And parents have a lot more latitude in the tools they can use to motivate a child. How many teachers have the power to take away entertainment from a student who doesn't do his/her work?

Also, who is more likely to understand the child as an individual - the parent, or the teacher (who has a classroom full of individuals)? Homeschooling can help a student who needs to reduce distractions. And certain classes can be taught when the child is most receptive (e.g. some kids do better with math early in the day, others later in the day).

There are challenges, though. Nobody should be homeschooling to "get away from" a situation. You need to be committed to moving "towards" something. Otherwise, the homeschooling parent will lose interest/patience and the experience could be a disaster. Each family must decide which educational environment - public, private, or homeschool - is best for their child(ren).

On the negative side, it costs a lot to homeschool - we pay twice for our kids' education (once with our taxes, and again out of pocket for the direct and indirect costs of education). I have to laugh when I hear people insinuate that homeschool parents are hurting their kids or trying to take the "easy way out"! Not only do you have to do the work of the teacher(s), but you have to work a lot harder to give your kids experiences with their peers - although you certainly have a lot more control over those experiences!

Also, no matter how well a homeschooled student does on standardized tests, no matter how many times they demonstrate excellence in their work - there will be those who still (implicitly or explicitly) consider homeschooling an inferior form of education. You learn this best when your child looks for scholarships and other forms of financial aid to attend college. More than half of all scholarships are closed to them de facto - because they did not graduate from an accredited local high school. It becomes more imperative for them to be involved in the community and in other activities where they may have access to financial aid for college.

On the positive side - our school has no drug problems, no metal detectors, no "bully" problems, no teenage pregnancies, and the parents, teachers, and administrators all get along great

People regularly comment on the maturity my kids exhibit in social settings - before they know that they are homeschooled. I think the primary reason for this is that they are insulated from a lot of the peer "goofiness" during the school day, and are expected to pattern their behavior after the adult example that is being given to them by their teacher(s). As far as extracurricular opportunities, our kids experience the same things as other kids: athletics, the arts, volunteering, part-time work, and other "normal" activities. The difference is that as homeschooling parents, we are by definition involved with our kids' activities. We can't just turn them over to someone else to do the "dirty work".

I hope this helps.

[ebbieday]

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like one must be extremely organized and determined to do this kind of schooling. Kudos to you for getting the job done.

[evilkumquat]

People regularly comment on the maturity my kids exhibit in social settings - before they know that they are homeschooled. I think the primary reason for this is that they are insulated from a lot of the peer "goofiness" during the school day, and are expected to pattern their behavior after the adult example that is being given to them by their teacher(s).

At the risk of going all Willy Wonka here but, what's wrong with kids being kids?

The young have their entire adult lives to be mature, but a very, very short time to have fun "acting their age" and get away with it.

Granted, I discipline my kids at a level just below the point where they would be expected to goosestep, because deep down I am a lazy parent and I would much rather my kids always behave in public (or at home) so I am not put out by their actions. However, we still goof around and do stupid "kid" things (personally, when it is just me and them in my car, I sing a song about them being "poopy pants" to the point where they are positively screaming at me to stop- but all in good fun).

[Ligonite]

At the risk of going all Willy Wonka here but, what's wrong with kids being kids?

The young have their entire adult lives to be mature, but a very, very short time to have fun "acting their age" and get away with it.

Granted, I discipline my kids at a level just below the point where they would be expected to goosestep, because deep down I am a lazy parent and I would much rather my kids always behave in public (or at home) so I am not put out by their actions. However, we still goof around and do stupid "kid" things (personally, when it is just me and them in my car, I sing a song about them being "poopy pants" to the point where they are positively screaming at me to stop- but all in good fun).

Nothing is wrong with "kids being kids". You missed the point. The most common objection against homeschooling is that the children will not be properly "socialized". (I suppose some people think we are raising jack-booted anti-social religious whack-jobs or something to that effect). I was pointing out that it is quite possible to raise normal, even exemplary children without sending them into the public schools for "socialization". I never implied that kids should not have the opportunity to "be kids".

To clarify, when I said peer "goofiness", I meant things like tattoos, piercings, provocative dress, foul language, inappropriate PDAs, experimenting with drugs, disrespect for authority, and the like. I don't see any of those things as "kids being kids".

[LuciusBeebe]

What does maturity have to do with social skills?

To clarify, when I said peer "goofiness", I meant things like tattoos, piercings, provocative dress, foul language, inappropriate PDAs, experimenting with drugs, disrespect for authority, and the like. I don't see any of those things as "kids being kids".

That is totally kids being kids.

[james_t]

That is totally kids being kids.

Some of those behaviors yes, some no. Teens have an illusion of indestructibility that can be fatal or wreck their lives if you don't intervene at some point.

Regardless, I think kumquat's original post about "kids being kids" was referring to a different age range. One does not generally sing songs about poopy pants with a car load of teenagers, unless perhaps you're dredging up things from their childhood to embarrass the heck out of them.

[ebbieday]

The young have their entire adult lives to be mature, but a very, very short time to have fun "acting their age" and get away with it.

Oh I couldn't agree more!!

However, we still goof around and do stupid "kid" things (personally, when it is just me and them in my car, I sing a song about them being "poopy pants" to the point where they are positively screaming at me to stop- but all in good fun).

I love it! Sounds like a great time and THAT...is what memories are made of. Your kids will never forget those times.

[james_t]

AS a "whole" maybe but that is because the really good teachers are so far out in front of those mediocre 8 to3 teachers.teaching has become a lucrative job for people who want to take 100 to 300 level classes and start out making good money for 9 months of the year.

That seems a bit harsh to me, and I've had kids in public schools for about seven years now (besides being a public school product myself).

I agree there are mediocre teachers out there, but I think those are more the exception than the rule. Most of them I've dealt with have been the kind who put in long hours after class working on lesson plans and grading papers.

My wife worked as school nurse at our local public high school for one year back in Illinois. Although she liked working with the students, she wound up putting in tons of unpaid overtime just to keep up with all the paperwork involved. This for a salary that was about 1/3 of what she made as staff nurse at the hospital.

[HoosierHelen]

I am encouraged to see that Allen County has taken an interest in monitoring the progress of these 2 families children that are homeschooled. As I am sure you all remember, I have been concerned about those children being left behind because their parents didn't want to make the effort to allow their children to participate in public schooling and were not required by Indiana's vague laws to test their children's educational progress and submit that to the state in the case of home schooling.

I understand many object to this testing of homeschooled children, however, I know of no other way to measure their progress in learning. Both public school children and private school children have adjusted to the testing routine. Why are homeschooled children exempt? I continue to hope that our state will define the expectations of homeschooled children's programs.

http://www.journalgazette.com/articl...994/1002/LOCAL

[HoosierHelen]

I am encouraged to see that Allen County has taken an interest in monitoring the progress of these 2 families children that are homeschooled. As I am sure you all remember, I have been concerned about those children being left behind because their parents didn't want to make the effort to allow their children to participate in public schooling and were not required by Indiana's vague laws to test their children's educational progress and submit that to the state in the case of home schooling.

I understand many object to this testing of homeschooled children, however, I know of no other way to measure their progress in learning. Both public school children and private school children have adjusted to the testing routine. Why are homeschooled children exempt? I continue to hope that our state will define the expectations of homeschooled children's programs.

http://www.journalgazette.com/articl...994/1002/LOCAL

My norm is NOT to listen to the Pat White show on WOWO, however, a friend of mine called to tell me he was discussing this story on his show this afternoon. Guess what...his primary interest was for the Mothers who plead guilty for neglect in keeping proper records of attendence for their children. He expressed NO concern for the children and the quality of educational standards they were capable of accomplishing. Once again, I plead that our state put a priority on measuring the quality of education some of our home schooled children are receiving.

[Mrs.Slotz]

A person I work with has home schooled their children. What I am hearing is: When you go to apply for college, the home schooled do have to take several exams before they are accepted. They have to show proof of what they did, etc.