Men abducting men?

[LuciusBeebe]

All I wanted to know is from a man's perspective, what might have been the desired result of doing such a thing.

I think he wanted to have sex with an amish guy.

At least I didn't use a Faffian approach.

That took far too long for me to get.

[james_t]

I think he wanted to have sex with an amish guy.

According to the LaGrange sheriff, the perp said he was looking for a girl but a guy would have to do.

If indeed (and this is pure speculation on my part) he was picking the Amish because he thought they were an easier target - either because, as today's story mentioned, he believed they wouldn't report the crime, or, as one of our online commenters pointed out, because an Amish person wouldn't be armed - it would mean he was just looking for whatever he could get the easiest, not that he necessarily had anything against the Amish.

But of course, he may have something against the Amish, too.

[LuciusBeebe]

I've not heard of an Amish fetish, but given the ones out there already, it wouldn't surprise me.

My previous post might seem glib, but it was not intended to be. So if it irked you, I'm sorry, Ebbie. But the question is one that I've thought about for awhile. Mostly while trudging through yet another psychology course.

When Freud wasn't advocating cocaine as the cure for everything, before demonizing it as the evil that it is... he was teaching the world that everything is more complex than it really is. Things like rapists aren't really after sex, they are after power. Or guys knock off liquor stores because daddy didn't hug them. The problem with that is I just don't believe it. A guy puts 8 years and a couple hundred thousand into a Masters of Psychology and suddenly everything is complicated.

Well sometimes a dude commits rape because he wants sex, and sometimes a guy robs because he wants money. The only reason they actually do it is because they think they can get away with it. Yes, there are cases of people who have suffered abuse and are completely rewired, but the majority of these crimes are not committed by those people. They are committed by idiots who think they'll never be caught.

That's why my response to "why did this guy rape an amish man" was "because he wanted to have sex with an amish man".

[james_t]

Yes, there are cases of people who have suffered abuse and are completely rewired, but the majority of these crimes are not committed by those people.

I'd always thought they were, but that could be just my own perceptions. I don't have the time at the moment to try and Google anything - do you have some links that say most sex crimes aren't committed by folks who were abused?

[LuciusBeebe]

I'd always thought they were, but that could be just my own perceptions. I don't have the time at the moment to try and Google anything - do you have some links that say most sex crimes aren't committed by folks who were abused?

The abuse thing wasn't the key, the "completely rewired" part is the crux of my point. Guys like Ed Gein. People like that, psychologists see a huge mother complex and try to paint everyone with the same brush. "Ed Gein had a mother complex, and that's why he did what he did. So clearly everybody who does it must have a mother complex". Things like that, you know?

[james_t]

Guys like Ed Gein. People like that, psychologists see a huge mother complex and try to paint everyone with the same brush. "Ed Gein had a mother complex, and that's why he did what he did. So clearly everybody who does it must have a mother complex". Things like that, you know?

I can buy that beyond the abuse, but I think the abuse may be one of the biggest factors. As I recall, there's a lot of evidence that these things continue, so that the abused kid has a good chance of becoming a rapist, abuser, or whatever unless there's some kind of intervention.

Yeah, I think Freud is pretty much out of favor these days - at least he was when I took college psych. If his theories were a projection of his own psyche, it makes me wonder more than a little bit about him, anyway.

[LuciusBeebe]

I can buy that beyond the abuse, but I think the abuse may be one of the biggest factors.

Sure, no problem there. Part of the problem in determining this is a tendency for people to play the blame game. "I did this because I was abused", that sort of thing, you know? That's my beef with psychology, it is all anecdotal. A guy says this, and the doctor has to have a reason for it. Well sometimes its just not complicated, and the doctor is giving the patient an out for what they have done. And if anyone thinks that I'm diminishing the cases out there of people who actually have been damaged psychologically by abuse, that is not my intention, and I'm sorry if I offended. I'm just speaking about the people out there who commit crimes because they want something they can't have, and the doctors who diminish their responsibility by painting them as a victim.

[james_t]

Going back to something said earlier - I don't think explaining something is the same as excusing it. You can recognize that those who are abused have a tendency to become abusers themselves, but ultimately they are the ones who make that choice.

[LuciusBeebe]

I don't think explaining something is the same as excusing it.

Even if the net effect is that our legal system gives people reduced sentences on the say-so of a doctor?

Isn't that excusing it to a degree?

[james_t]

Even if the net effect is that our legal system gives people reduced sentences on the say-so of a doctor?

Isn't that excusing it to a degree?

To a degree, yes. I guess what I meant was it doesn't excuse it entirely.

Hypothetically, if I were a judge hearing a rape case and the testimony is that the perp was abused, I would probably give him a lighter sentence - all other things being equal - than a perp who did not experience abuse, and perhaps recommend some kind of specialized counseling so that he could hopefully break the cycle at some point. But I would not find him "not guilty" and let him off with just the counseling.

[evilkumquat]

Yeah, I think Freud is pretty much out of favor these days - at least he was when I took college psych. If his theories were a projection of his own psyche, it makes me wonder more than a little bit about him, anyway.

Wasn't he a raving coke-head?

[james_t]

Wasn't he a raving coke-head?

I don't recall much about his personal life - just conjecture based on his theories.

He helped Sherlock Holmes kick the coke habit in "The Seven Per Cent Solution", but that was obviously fiction (although probably the best of the non-Conan Doyle Holmes stories).

[evilkumquat]

I don't recall much about his personal life - just conjecture based on his theories.

He helped Sherlock Holmes kick the coke habit in "The Seven Per Cent Solution", but that was obviously fiction (although probably the best of the non-Conan Doyle Holmes stories).

Would you believe I have read every Conan Doyle Holmes' story many times, but have never once picked up any of the pastiches?

I would probabably start with that one, though, since it was written by the guy who directed Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

[james_t]

Would you believe I have read every Conan Doyle Holmes' story many times, but have never once picked up any of the pastiches?

I would probabably start with that one, though, since it was written by the guy who directed Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

I have a number of them, some that I care for more than others. Somewhere in my library is a volume of Holmes short stories written by a variety of modern authors, including Stephen King.

[LuciusBeebe]

Wasn't he a raving coke-head?

For a time, yes.

After some time, though, he reversed his position.

[james_t]

Dusting off the thread...

There has been an arrest in this case, but no revelation as to a possible motive.

http://www.fwdailynews.com/articles/...eab8ba9405.txt

[ebbieday]

Yes, I read that a while ago. GREAT that they finally caught the creep. And they are attempting to get a motive, just like I was trying to do some months ago. I am always interested in the "why" of certain crimes. Can't wait for the answer.

[Rockstarr]

From this link, it looks like the answer of "why" is that he "had been looking for an Amish girl, but the man would have to do."

http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps...16/1052/News01