Buying a 15 year old

[Graygleam]

Do you know that the he didn't ask the person who reported him to buy a girl?

Do you know that he did ?

Asking to buy, and talking about buying, are two very different things

[dg46755]

Do you know that he did ?

Asking to buy, and talking about buying, are two very different things

The man did speak with people about buying a girl. This was reported to the police. In order to be arrested the man had to take a substantial step towards the purchase of the girl. As having the money and meeting the seller at a predetermined location to make the purchase. This case is a very similar to trying to hire a person to kill someone. Through the informant the police get the information and a meeting is set up to see if the person is willing to take that substantial step to make the deal.

[LuciusBeebe]

I was Googling a bit on human trafficking, and it did mention cases as close as Detroit and Indy. It's probably not too much of a stretch to imagine someone from this area making a contact there and arranging something if they were really determined to do so.

Yes, it is not hard to imagine it happening in cities with millions of people.

That's the whole point. This is not a problem for northeast Indiana. So why are they acting like it is?

I know that there is still crime in the midst of our small towns. But I don't think we want to wait until they start to become like New York to act.

You're making the assumption that things around here COULD become like New York. That's not an assumption that I find plausible.



My whole view on this is that stings should be performed when there is an existing problem. Drug stings, for example. If the area has a drug problem, go ahead. Prostitution stings? Okay, if you've got a prostitution problem in the area, sure.

Or several years ago, when Angola police had a stakeout to catch people that were stealing cans from the recycling bins in the K-mart parking lot. They were responding to something that was happening.

Were people being bought in sold in Fremont, Indiana? No, they were not. There was not a problem.


Am I upset that this guy is in jail? Not one bit. Good riddance. My only problem is that stories like this, with police involvement no less, are only going to perpetuate the idea that northeast Indiana is just as bad as the worst places in the country. Its not. This is a good place. I am not worried about the future my daughters will have here. And I get aggravated when the police perpetuate the notion that I should be worried.

I live in a small town. Please act as if it was a small town, police. Get the drunk drivers, the wife beaters, the thieves and the meth makers. But do not try to make people think that we've got young girls being trafficked like this was Los Angeles or New York. Because we don't.

[dg46755]

I believe somewhere in this thread someone stated that the police are only reactive and not proactive and the thought was that is the way it should be.
The police do react to the crimes that are being committed or have been committed but also investigate the planning of a crime.
A couple of people planning to rob a bank and take it a step(s) further than just talking.
Terrorists planning to destroy a building and have taken substantial steps towards their goal.
Informants and undercover officers do this all the time especially with drug deals.
These are just a few examples of conspiracy and it is investigated by the police and arrests are made before the crime is committed or allowed to happen under police control.

[dg46755]

That's the whole point. This is not a problem for northeast Indiana. So why are they acting like it is?

You're making the assumption that things around here COULD become like New York. That's not an assumption that I find plausible.

My whole view on this is that stings should be performed when there is an existing problem. Drug stings, for example. If the area has a drug problem, go ahead. Prostitution stings? Okay, if you've got a prostitution problem in the area, sure.

Or several years ago, when Angola police had a stakeout to catch people that were stealing cans from the recycling bins in the K-mart parking lot. They were responding to something that was happening.

Were people being bought in sold in Fremont, Indiana? No, they were not. There was not a problem.

So what you are saying is that we should allow it to happen a few times before the police should get involved. There is always a first time for anything. Does that make it less important because it could have been the first?

Am I upset that this guy is in jail? Not one bit. Good riddance. My only problem is that stories like this, with police involvement no less, are only going to perpetuate the idea that northeast Indiana is just as bad as the worst places in the country. Its not. This is a good place. I am not worried about the future my daughters will have here. And I get aggravated when the police perpetuate the notion that I should be worried.

This one arrest does not make northeast Indiana a bad place or even the appearance. Just how did the police perpetuate the notion that you should be worried? This is one arrest, one person and thankfully he wasn't allowed to keep looking until he met his goal.

I live in a small town. Please act as if it was a small town, police. Get the drunk drivers, the wife beaters, the thieves and the meth makers. But do not try to make people think that we've got young girls being trafficked like this was Los Angeles or New York. Because we don't.

I believe you are over reacting to this whole incident. This is no longer Mayberry and the same problems exist in small cities as they do in the large cities only to a much smaller scale.

[HoosierHelen]

I believe you are over reacting to this whole incident. This is no longer Mayberry and the same problems exist in small cities as they do in the large cities only to a much smaller scale.

A few years ago a double murder occurred in the rural area of Mongo, none in our community expected such a thing possible here either.

[LuciusBeebe]

I believe you are over reacting to this whole incident. This is no longer Mayberry and the same problems exist in small cities as they do in the large cities only to a much smaller scale.

Really? Then it should be easy for you to find a link to a case of a person being sold in Fremont. Angola. Lagrange. Anywhere in the county.

The same problems DO NOT exist in small towns as in large cities. When was our last drive-by? Our last riot?

This IS Mayberry. I like that. I don't enjoy people treating my town like a big city.

A few years ago a double murder occurred in the rural area of Mongo, none in our community expected such a thing possible here either.

If nobody in Mongo thought a person could be killed in Mongo, then forgive me for saying, but Mongo must be full of idiots.

Just how did the police perpetuate the notion that you should be worried?

Because the police acted like this is an area with a human trafficking problem.

[matt_s]

You're making the assumption that things around here COULD become like New York. That's not an assumption that I find plausible.

Angola actually indexes higher on property crime than NYC.
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?cit...city2=51801666

Heck, Fremont is even more violent
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?cit...city2=51825882

Apparently Kendallville is only slightly better
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?cit...city2=51839402

Fort Wayne is worse all the way around
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?cit...city2=51825000

I knew there was a reason I liked living in Auburn
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?cit...city2=51802674

Why do you think it is not plausible that small town USA could not have criminal activity on par with a bigger city. Sure we don't have the volume, but if (and I'm making these numbers up - real numbers aren't necessary to illustrate my point) 3 in every 1000 are victims of a crime in NYC, is 24 to 30 people here not enough to care about.

[LuciusBeebe]

Why do you think it is not plausible that small town USA could not have criminal activity on par with a bigger city. Sure we don't have the volume, but if (and I'm making these numbers up - real numbers aren't necessary to illustrate my point) 3 in every 1000 are victims of a crime in NYC, is 24 to 30 people here not enough to care about.

The type of crime is the only thing I'm talking about. There are going to be certain crimes that are independent of population center. There are also going to be certain crimes that are only possible because of population center.

Human trafficking is not a problem we have to deal with.

Cattle rustling is not a problem NYC has to deal with.

[matt_s]

Because the police acted like this is an area with a human trafficking problem.

Lucius, I understand where you are coming from. Entrapment runs a risk of blurring the lines involved in innocent until proven guilty by artificially inflating the opportunity portion of the means, motive, and opportunity equation.
However, if somebody is willing to cross the line from potential perp to perp then I think they should be apprehended. I will however cede that the cops probably did make it a little too easy with the price tag. But hey, I don't know what market value is on a 15 year old.

I know that this an obvious question, but how many people being trafficked makes it a problem area? 3, 10, 125? When do we stand up and say, ok, now we have a problem? Is there a different number for murders? How about rapes? Ok, lets get out of violent crime, how about boat thefts?

Do we wait to act until we reach that magical number? Should the police sit around and wait until the third (if that's the number) incident and tell the families of the first two crimes "sorry, we couldn't do anything to prevent this because there haven't been enough of them yet".

I still want the police to have to do their job and establish probable cause and do all of the things that they need to do, legally, to bust a person who is willing to make the leap potential perp to perp.

[LuciusBeebe]

I know that this an obvious question, but how many people being trafficked makes it a problem area? 3, 10, 125? When do we stand up and say, ok, now we have a problem?

I think 1 would be sufficient.

So... when it happens, sting away.


That's my whole point. Its never happened. Why the sting? Gotta stop something that's never happened from happening? Gotta stop something that CAN'T happen from happening?

Let's be honest, if someone has a girl for sale, I doubt they're going to be selling her in Fremont, Indiana.

[matt_s]

The type of crime is the only thing I'm talking about. There are going to be certain crimes that are independent of population center. There are also going to be certain crimes that are only possible because of population center.

Human trafficking is not a problem we have to deal with.

Cattle rustling is not a problem NYC has to deal with.

I'll give you cattle rustling in NYC. But I guess I'll disagree on human trafficking. Last I checked all you needed for Human Trafficking is 3 people.

[LuciusBeebe]

I'll give you cattle rustling in NYC. But I guess I'll disagree on human trafficking. Last I checked all you needed for Human Trafficking is 3 people.

There's no want-ads for that sort of thing, Matt.

Its like when people talk about the black market in discussions about gun control. There's no real Black Market that you go to. You've got to know some people that know some people. Yes, it only takes 3 people for human trafficking to take place. The point is that 1 of them is not in Fremont, Indiana.


By the way, I should point out that I've been reading Culture of Fear, so stories like this are pinging my radar.

[matt_s]

I think 1 would be sufficient.

So... when it happens, sting away.


That's my whole point. Its never happened. Why the sting? Gotta stop something that's never happened from happening? Gotta stop something that CAN'T happen from happening?

Let's be honest, if someone has a girl for sale, I doubt they're going to be selling her in Fremont, Indiana.

So why can it happen in a town of 1500 in nowhere Iowa but not here?
http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pb...0341325&Ref=AR

Yes, I know if we search google long enough for anything, we can find everything. So it's an anomaly. Tell me why it is an anomaly and what about our area would make it impossible to happen here. Are the people different? Is our culture different? Do we have different values?

You keep saying it can't happen here, but I have yet to hear why it can't happen here.

[matt_s]

The point is that 1 of them is not in Fremont, Indiana.

You are right, he's now a resident of a cell block in Angola. So apparently at one point there was the potential for 1 of the 3 being in Fremont.

[jims]

The type of crime is the only thing I'm talking about. There are going to be certain crimes that are independent of population center. There are also going to be certain crimes that are only possible because of population center.

Human trafficking is not a problem we have to deal with.

Cattle rustling is not a problem NYC has to deal with.

I hear stampeding cattle through the Vatican is a problem, however.

[LuciusBeebe]

So why can it happen in a town of 1500 in nowhere Iowa but not here?
http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pb...0341325&Ref=AR

Yes, I know if we search google long enough for anything, we can find everything. So it's an anomaly. Tell me why it is an anomaly and what about our area would make it impossible to happen here. Are the people different? Is our culture different? Do we have different values?

You keep saying it can't happen here, but I have yet to hear why it can't happen here.

Let's use economics.

You go to where the customers are, right?

If you've got a girl to sell, you don't go to Fremont, Indiana.

If you've got a truckload of guns to sell, you don't go to Fremont, Indiana.

If you've got a kilo of heroin to sell, you don't go to Fremont, Indiana.

You keep saying it can happen here, I have yet to hear how it can happen here.

You are right, he's now a resident of a cell block in Angola. So apparently at one point there was the potential for 1 of the 3 being in Fremont.

Yeah, the only one of the three that actually existed.

In other words, when you said it takes 3 people for human trifficking, you were right... there was no human trafficking in Fremont, Indiana.

Tell me why it is an anomaly and what about our area would make it impossible to happen here. Are the people different? Is our culture different? Do we have different values?

Yes, yes and yes.

Big cities are different from small towns.

[john40]

I totaly agree it is out and out entrapment.

[Tim120]

I'm sure if they wanted to, they could catch a bunch of people in a prostitution sting. Should they? We don't have a problem with prostitution.
Likewise, we do not have a problem with people being sold.

Sure we don't? Just keep sittin back in your easy chair thinking IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE this is Indiana. No problems with much here. We just have "smaller crimes here." Yeah there's not a major truck stop here where it'd be easy to bring someone in unsuspected. No one could possibly kidnap someone around here and sell them. Granted the guys an idiot but LB you cannot be so naive as to think it is impossible. Improbabable I'll give you. Friends have friends who might know someone. Six degrees of seperation.

Quiet northern Indiana. I'll never get caught must be what the Gang members thought in the 30's

[Tim120]

Let's use economics.

You go to where the customers are, right?

If you've got a girl to sell, you don't go to Fremont, Indiana.

If you've got a truckload of guns to sell, you don't go to Fremont, Indiana.

If you've got a kilo of heroin to sell, you don't go to Fremont, Indiana.

You keep saying it can happen here, I have yet to hear how it can happen here.

ok lets use logic here
There are customers EVERYWHERE!
If you've got a girl you can sell and you don't wanna get caught? You go to Fremont, IN

If you've got a truckload of guns to sell in Chicago to a guy in Cleveland, You meet in Fremont, IN

If you got a 10 kilo's of heroin to sell, you have a guy sell it in Fort Wayne while you sit back and relax in Fremont, IN with the rest of your stash

Got piles of meth you've made? sell it house it and make more in good old Fremont, IN

Fremont. It's a nice place to not get caught
And it can happen here and absolutly does.