Respecting The Property Of Others. Way Back When vs Today

[Marshall]

What has changed? When I grew up I was told by my folks to not cut through the neighbors yard, to be quiet in the library, respect elders and don't get paddled at school or you'll get the same again when you get home.

I'm really dating myself here but I'm looking to put a finger on why the simple courtesy is missing. Kids ride their bikes through my yard. School teachers have no control in the class room and if a librarian says be quiet, she is told to go ---- her self/his self. If values start at home who's teaching or modeling the proper behavior.

Thoughts

[Graygleam]

What has changed? When I grew up I was told by my folks to not cut through the neighbors yard, to be quiet in the library, respect elders and don't get paddled at school or you'll get the same again when you get home.

I'm really dating myself here but I'm looking to put a finger on why the simple courtesy is missing. Kids ride their bikes through my yard. School teachers have no control in the class room and if a librarian says be quiet, she is told to go ---- her self/his self. If values start at home who's teaching or modeling the proper behavior.

Thoughts

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."

[LuciusBeebe]

I'm really dating myself here but I'm looking to put a finger on why the simple courtesy is missing.

Its not missing.

Maybe 1 kid cuts through your yard. Many of them don't.

There will always be A-hole kids. Sometimes its a reflection of their parenting, sometimes they're just A-holes. Its always gonna be that way.

You'll rarely notice the good kids, but they outnumber the jerks.

[armyda]

What has changed? When I grew up I was told by my folks to not cut through the neighbors yard, to be quiet in the library, respect elders and don't get paddled at school or you'll get the same again when you get home.

I'm really dating myself here but I'm looking to put a finger on why the simple courtesy is missing. Kids ride their bikes through my yard. School teachers have no control in the class room and if a librarian says be quiet, she is told to go ---- her self/his self. If values start at home who's teaching or modeling the proper behavior.

Thoughts

Marshall,

You were told, and your parents said: Even back in the age, that didn't happen for everyone. Now it probably happens less often, I won't disagree. But Gray is also correct in that the younger generation have always appeared to be less respectful and well behaved as the previous.

You talk about teachers not having control in the classroom. That is an issue of the teacher or the school administration. In other words, the problem isn't with the kids, the problem is the adults. Discipline isn't equitable or applied evenly, the only exception to this is the Nuclear option. This is when, no matter what the circumstances, intent, character are, the ultimate punishment is due. In other words, the kid who dresses up as a viking on Halloween bringing in a plastic sword, receives the same punishment as the kid caught with the 8" switchblade.

Schools and teachers tell you that this is due to the threat of lawsuits. This is a lie. How many times have you seen reports of a school where performance has been turned around and graduation rates and college acceptance has soared?

Now me, if a kid rides his bike across my yard, or they run into it playing a game of tag, fine. If they start using it as their private walkway and wearing a path, I'll say something. Other than that, who cares. When I was a kid, I played in my neighbors yards, hid in the yards of strangers, made friends with peoples guard dogs: All this without their permission. How horrible.

[Marshall]

Marshall,
Now me, if a kid rides his bike across my yard, or they run into it playing a game of tag, fine. If they start using it as their private walkway and wearing a path, I'll say something. Other than that, who cares. When I was a kid, I played in my neighbors yards, hid in the yards of strangers, made friends with peoples guard dogs: All this without their permission. How horrible.

I can see that I'm painting a picture of myself as the old man in a rocker on his front porch smacking my cane on the porch railing as the kids step on my yard. Might be fun if and when I'm in my 90's but for now I'm not too troubled by it. Now when the little rap scallion rides his bike through the Zenias and they lodge in his spokes, I guess I would like to hear Denis the Menace say sorry Mr. Marshall. What I do get upon saying excuse me but you just ran through my wifes flowers, is the bird.

LuciusBeebe your 100% right that there will always be A-hole kids who later turn into A-hole adults. What I have been doing over the coarse of time in 2010 is to watch for the kids who demonstrate courtesy. You know the old treat others the way you would want to be treated thingy. I would like folks viewing this forum to also take a closer look and answer, is the concern I mention about the same as it has always been or is the number or troubled youth which demonstrate the lack of courtesy and respect increasing?

I don't have studies to point towards for proof but I get the impression the problem is increasing.

[HoosierHelen]

I can see that I'm painting a picture of myself as the old man in a rocker on his front porch smacking my cane on the porch railing as the kids step on my yard. Might be fun if and when I'm in my 90's but for now I'm not too troubled by it. Now when the little rap scallion rides his bike through the Zenias and they lodge in his spokes, I guess I would like to hear Denis the Menace say sorry Mr. Marshall. What I do get upon saying excuse me but you just ran through my wifes flowers, is the bird.

LuciusBeebe your 100% right that there will always be A-hole kids who later turn into A-hole adults. What I have been doing over the coarse of time in 2010 is to watch for the kids who demonstrate courtesy. You know the old treat others the way you would want to be treated thingy. I would like folks viewing this forum to also take a closer look and answer, is the concern I mention about the same as it has always been or is the number or troubled youth which demonstrate the lack of courtesy and respect increasing?

I don't have studies to point towards for proof but I get the impression the problem is increasing.

Fortunately Marshall, I don't have any neighbor kids who exhibit this kind of behavior. That being said, I do feel compassion for what you are experiencing and believe what you are reporting to be very real. No, I didn't picture an old man with his cane on the front porch when your 1st wrote this. What I did picture were children in a class that my close friend's daughter is doing her student teaching in.

Honestly, I do 'get' what you are reporting, children that are showing up in kindergarden with behavior disorders that were unheard of in my day. They use terms like 'fetal alcohol syndrome', ADHD, etc. to describe their conditions. The teachers are facing children who have anger management issues that causes them to claw at their own faces and arms, pull their own hair out, throw temper fits that involve throwing articles in the classroom about randomly, and they are told to put these children on a bean bag and give them squeeze toys to help them release their emotions? I learned there is actually a store somewhere in FW where parents of hyper active children purchase little swivel seats and distraction devices to help the children stay at their desks.

No, I never saw this kind of behavior problems in my classrooms while growing up. Yes, we had the bullys, the class clowns, and the jocks who thought it was cool to single out someone and declare them a 'nerd'. As kids .... we all found our own way to work around the difficult kids in the class.

Today, the behaviors we are seeing from some of these kids is not coming out of the 'normal jar of kids will be kids'. Some have been scared before birth with drug/alcohol abuse by the Mothers, others are scared by extremely unstable homelives. Both conditions I'm sure existed before this current generation, however, not to the extent we are now seeing. Neither myself or my children went to school with the extreme conditions my friend's daughter describes in her classroom. I was quite surprised to learn that children of 5-6 yrs old have State paid personal counselors who monitor these kids while in class? Who knew? Not me?

OK! That all being said, Marshall, have you tried getting to know this kid a bit? Perhaps if he feels he knows you, he would then decide to respect your requests to not ride his bike across your lawn? Sometimes it helps (with some) if they feel a connection with you personally, not just your concern about your property. Give it a go....and best of luck!

[LuciusBeebe]

What I have been doing over the coarse of time in 2010 is to watch for the kids who demonstrate courtesy. You know the old treat others the way you would want to be treated thingy. I would like folks viewing this forum to also take a closer look and answer, is the concern I mention about the same as it has always been or is the number or troubled youth which demonstrate the lack of courtesy and respect increasing?

I don't have studies to point towards for proof but I get the impression the problem is increasing.

My impression is that kids are becoming the way that adults are becoming, so involved with themselves that they don't have very good people skills. Facebook, cell phones, whatever... people are self absorbed these days, far more than in the past. Two days ago a man cut me off at a four way stop because he was using his turn signal hand to hold his cell phone to his ear, so he couldn't use his turn signal. He saw me giving him the "what the heck" expression, hands in air. He jiggled his cell phone at me.

[2cents]

I've been thinking about this and I believe it is partly because many children aren't taught the basic etiquette in there homes today. Instead of being taught the word please, it's more like "give it to me now", and thank you now translates into "it's about time". With that and proper discipline being next to a crime. Instead of teaching children in school that if their parents spank them, they can call child services, maybe they should teach them etiquette and respect. It is no wonder that we have so many juvenile delinquent's running around today.

[Goodchange]

So true...it is an epidemic...RUDE, CRUDE, NO MANNERS, NO RESPECT. IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO RESPECT. CHILDREN LEARN FROM THEIR PARENTS AND IF THE PARENTS ARE DISPICABLE, THEN SO ARE THE CHILDREN. THE "F" WORD IS USED IN THE HOME, SCHOOL, ANYWHERE. THERE IS ALSO NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW. OUR TOP LEADERS CHEAT, LIE, AND THEN WONDER WHY OUR YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE NO HEROS TODAY. UNLESS WE TURN AROUND AND DEMAND RESPECT FROM THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP, THEN SCHOOLS, HOMES, ETC, DON'T CARE EITHER. INAPPROPRIATE DRESSING IS ANOTHER THORN IN MY SIDE. THE MORE DISRESPECTFUL YOU CAN DRESS, THE MORE POPULAR YOU ARE. GO FIGURE...

[TheBigB]

So true...it is an epidemic...RUDE, CRUDE, NO MANNERS, NO RESPECT. IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO RESPECT. CHILDREN LEARN FROM THEIR PARENTS AND IF THE PARENTS ARE DISPICABLE, THEN SO ARE THE CHILDREN. THE \"F\" WORD IS USED IN THE HOME, SCHOOL, ANYWHERE. THERE IS ALSO NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW. OUR TOP LEADERS CHEAT, LIE, AND THEN WONDER WHY OUR YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE NO HEROS TODAY. UNLESS WE TURN AROUND AND DEMAND RESPECT FROM THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP, THEN SCHOOLS, HOMES, ETC, DON'T CARE EITHER. INAPPROPRIATE DRESSING IS ANOTHER THORN IN MY SIDE. THE MORE DISRESPECTFUL YOU CAN DRESS, THE MORE POPULAR YOU ARE. GO FIGURE...

I blame it on emails and Internet message board posts that are in all caps.

[Graygleam]

So true...it is an epidemic...RUDE, CRUDE, NO MANNERS, NO RESPECT. IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO RESPECT. CHILDREN LEARN FROM THEIR PARENTS AND IF THE PARENTS ARE DISPICABLE, THEN SO ARE THE CHILDREN. THE \"F\" WORD IS USED IN THE HOME, SCHOOL, ANYWHERE. THERE IS ALSO NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW. OUR TOP LEADERS CHEAT, LIE, AND THEN WONDER WHY OUR YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE NO HEROS TODAY. UNLESS WE TURN AROUND AND DEMAND RESPECT FROM THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP, THEN SCHOOLS, HOMES, ETC, DON'T CARE EITHER. INAPPROPRIATE DRESSING IS ANOTHER THORN IN MY SIDE. THE MORE DISRESPECTFUL YOU CAN DRESS, THE MORE POPULAR YOU ARE. GO FIGURE...

Why are you shouting ?

[edeevee]

I don't know where you guys hang out but the young people I encounter every day are wonderful. They are polite and respectful. They hold doors open for me when I'm carrying a load. At DeKalb HS they come down to the office when I arrive to carry my stuff upstairs, then they drag it all back down and even offer to follow me with it to my car. They listen when I speak to them too, even when an issue came up that had to involve a little confrontation. And it's not just DeKalb. Throughout the school year I am in almost every public high school in this area. I hear 'please' and 'thank you' wherever I go, the kids don't run over me when I need to cut through a hall, and I don't think I have witnessed more than a couple of students directly disobeying a teacher.

Thanks for starting this thread -- thinking about this actually made me feel a little more hopeful

[HoosierHelen]

I don't know where you guys hang out but the young people I encounter every day are wonderful. They are polite and respectful. They hold doors open for me when I'm carrying a load. At DeKalb HS they come down to the office when I arrive to carry my stuff upstairs, then they drag it all back down and even offer to follow me with it to my car. They listen when I speak to them too, even when an issue came up that had to involve a little confrontation. And it's not just DeKalb. Throughout the school year I am in almost every public high school in this area. I hear 'please' and 'thank you' wherever I go, the kids don't run over me when I need to cut through a hall, and I don't think I have witnessed more than a couple of students directly disobeying a teacher.

Thanks for starting this thread -- thinking about this actually made me feel a little more hopeful

Blessing must be said for our coffee. :-) Glad you have had positive experiences with our youth, Edeevee. Perhaps you bring the best out in them?
The best certainly exists within all of them.

[Marshall]

I don't know where you guys hang out but the young people I encounter every day are wonderful. They are polite and respectful. They hold doors open for me when I'm carrying a load. At DeKalb HS they come down to the office when I arrive to carry my stuff upstairs, then they drag it all back down and even offer to follow me with it to my car. They listen when I speak to them too, even when an issue came up that had to involve a little confrontation. And it's not just DeKalb. Throughout the school year I am in almost every public high school in this area. I hear 'please' and 'thank you' wherever I go, the kids don't run over me when I need to cut through a hall, and I don't think I have witnessed more than a couple of students directly disobeying a teacher.

Well that's a bit of good news for sure. I'm not sure that behavior though is the norm these days. However, reading your experience does present a positive image and I hope it spreads like wild fire. For those of use who grew up on black and white TV and had to get up to change the channel may recall that a kids entertainment was outside. You socialized with neighbors and other kids, you were not allowed on the phone. You had to use your imagination, play games and such. Today you're considered a caveman if you or your family members aren't connected by cell phone. Video games, computers don't offer social skills. Many old timers wouldn't know or recognise that typing posts or email in all CAPS is considered shouting. These are changing times but I fear the consequence of the change is producing children without respect for others at a rate greater than those that do.

[Mr Douglas]

Lived a pretty quiet life as a young man.

BUT......

An old man named grandpa Fletchcher......
If your dog got in his yard, it was maimed or dead.
Getting caught in his yard yourself-
A 10 guage Marlin bolt action goose gun- IN YOUR FACE!
Learned a lot about respect for other people's property as a young man.

[HoosierHelen]

Lived a pretty quiet life as a young man.

[SIZE=\"5\"]BUT......[/SIZE]

An old man named grandpa Fletchcher......
If your dog got in his yard, it was maimed or dead.
Getting caught in his yard yourself-
A 10 guage Marlin bolt action goose gun- IN YOUR FACE!
Learned a lot about respect for other people's property as a young man.

10 guage IN YOUR FACE? The Man deserves NO respect. He deserves yrs in prison. No child deserves this response for being in a neighbors yard. EOS!!

[Mr Douglas]

10 guage IN YOUR FACE? The Man deserves NO respect. He deserves yrs in prison. No child deserves this response for being in a neighbors yard. EOS!!

HAHAHAHA! "You Velly Furry....make me raff!"
On the other hand, nobody ever went Trick or Treating there.

[HoosierHelen]

HAHAHAHA! \\"You Velly Furry....make me raff!\\"

You are not so very funny also!

[LuciusBeebe]

For those of use who grew up on black and white TV and had to get up to change the channel may recall that a kids entertainment was outside. You socialized with neighbors and other kids

Speak for yourself. Summer vacation meant the neighbors were at work, and there weren't kids my age around. I caught turtles. The kids who lived in town got the socialization, and that wasn't always such a good thing. We kids from the boonies weren't the ones in the principals office.

Hanging with the other kids isn't always such a good thing, if you're after good behavior in a child.

[Mr Douglas]

You are not so very funny also!

Aww geez. The guy was just an old grouch. Kentucky native. He was half Cherokee Indian and had quite an alcohol problem.
He'd probably been messed with before by some of the more punkish kids around there, but was just plain mean anyway.
Also this was 35 or 40 years ago in a very rural area. None of the farmers around there were what you'd call tolerant of trespassers or running dogs.
Anyway, as a kid, I knew to just stay on my bike, stay on the road, and keep moving.