What Say You to This?

[nathandiehl]

This may have been a reference to their membership in the Freemasons.

I freely admit I don't know much about Freemasons, but would their actions seriously be considered a labor union?
That doesn't quite jive in my mind.

Can anybody give me some information on Freemasons being involved in labor union discussions prior to 1789 please?

[evilkumquat]

I freely admit I don't know much about Freemasons, but would their actions seriously be considered a labor union?
That doesn't quite jive in my mind.

Can anybody give me some information on Freemasons being involved in labor union discussions prior to 1789 please?

They didn't call them labor unions back then. They called them "guilds".

[nathandiehl]

They didn't call them labor unions back then. They called them "guilds".

hmmm...
Two thoughts:
1. If guilds and labor unions are the same thing, why does all my research say labor unions began in the late 1700's? If freemasonry was a guild that was a labor union, then labor unions had their first beginnings back in the 1300's, not 1700's. So I am not sure I buy that argument that freemasons engaged in labor union activities whilst calling it a guild prior to 1789.
2. If guilds are synonymous with labor unions, then can you or anyone else please provide me with an academic link stating what type of activities the Freemason guilds engaged in under the Articles of Confederation or prior?

I can't find or verify the information either way, so I am hoping someone else out there can point me to facts please.

[hairypumper]

How dare you call me a hater!!! I take EXTREME OFFENSE to that!!!!

You try and put words in my mouth and label me as things I am not!!!

I clearly stated my stance, I never said or denied ANY of the things you just accused me of.

Your response is exactly what I pointed out about the finger pointing and blame game. I forgot one though, for which I thank you for reminding me that they always then play in the past with their responses about how everything will revert to the dark ages. Come off it, no one buys that argument. There is no better example of a straw man argument than that one.

If this is all you are going to do, is play this game of name calling, puting words in my mouth and making accusations, I am done talking to you.

I never called you anything. I never accused you of anything except hating unions. If you're looking for a fight look elsewhere. I never said anything about the dark ages, unless you consider the 20th century the dark ages.

[Torget]

I rest my case.

[evilkumquat]

More evidence of just how much we can trust companies to take care of their workers without unions:

'My mom saved my life': Mother takes time off to donate kidney to son… and comes back to work to find out she’s been fired

A Pennsylvania mother who donated her kidney to save her son's life has been left without a job, after her employer fired her for taking a leave of absence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml
=========================================

Whenever union bashers claim that businesses wouldn't revert to the horrible way they used to treat workers if labor unions were dissolved, this is the sort of thing they need to consider.

The ONLY reason these ******** gave her a salary again is because of the international condemnation they so rightfully deserve.

Just think about all the abuses heaped on workers that never make the news.

[HomeyG]

I've highlighted this company before but sometimes we need to refresh our memories that non-union jobs are not always as bad as some would want us to believe. Is this a company that most will emulate, probably not, especially if you believe you earn through entitlements and not hard work. It requires taking personal responsibility, not just by employees but also by employers and investors.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2053834777

[evilkumquat]

I've highlighted this company before but sometimes we need to refresh our memories that non-union jobs are not always as bad as some would want us to believe. Is this a company that most will emulate, probably not, especially if you believe you earn through entitlements and not hard work. It requires taking personal responsibility, not just by employees but also by employers and investors.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2053834777

You do know those "entitlements" are funded through tax dollars that most of us paid into all of our working lives, right?

The ******* love to call them "entitlements" because it makes it easier to paint those who rely on them sound both privileged and lazy. Why not call them "refunds"?

To me, the only real "entitlement" programs in this country are those enjoyed by the rich who slide by without paying their fair share of income taxes (or those mega corporations that pay NO income taxes).

Also, funny how so many conservative politicians screech about "entitlements" when they've been on the public dole all their lives (either through tax breaks, CRP programs, school vouchers or their careers as politicians).

Just how much public money, OUR money, HAS Michelle Bachmann and her family received in their lives? Her husband receives Medicare and Medicaid payments through his clinic and they've received over $250,000 in farm subsidies.

I don't hear her screaming about THOSE "entitlements".

Remember with her and her supporters, it's always "I got mine; screw you."

[BigDeel]

More evidence of just how much we can trust companies to take care of their workers without unions:

'My mom saved my life': Mother takes time off to donate kidney to son… and comes back to work to find out she’s been fired

A Pennsylvania mother who donated her kidney to save her son's life has been left without a job, after her employer fired her for taking a leave of absence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml
=========================================

Whenever union bashers claim that businesses wouldn't revert to the horrible way they used to treat workers if labor unions were dissolved, this is the sort of thing they need to consider.

The ONLY reason these ******** gave her a salary again is because of the international condemnation they so rightfully deserve.

Just think about all the abuses heaped on workers that never make the news.

That's a terrible story. We should guarantee her job and healthcare,retirement,home,car,gas,phone,internet, cable,food,smokes. Did I forget anything ?

[hideaway70]

That's a terrible story. We should guarantee her job and healthcare,retirement,home,car,gas,phone,internet, cable,food,smokes. Did I forget anything ?

Beer maybe? Unless that would be included with food.

They should have fired her. Selfish ***** didn't care what her absence cost her benevolent employer. They have shareholders to feed you know.

[BigDeel]

Beer maybe? Unless that would be included with food.

They should have fired her. Selfish ***** didn't care what her absence cost her benevolent employer. They have shareholders to feed you know.

My point is where do we stop? We all know bad things happen to good people. I know this and have had to deal with it myself. We can't save everybody from everything. We can't afford what we do now. The firing of her was in poor taste, but legal. But to state she is intilteled to or should be guaranteed something is wrong in my opinion.

[HoosierHelen]

That's a terrible story. We should guarantee her job and healthcare,retirement,home,car,gas,phone,internet, cable,food,smokes. Did I forget anything ?

Evil responded so well to what you have said here...I simply want you to consider this once again, Big Deel? Who indeed should be considered to be the largest recipients of entitlements? Mothers who donate a kidney to her son, or the examples that Evil refers to here? Was the Mother's employer required by law to retain her as an employee? Obviously not on a legal basis. The moral question will be answered on an individual response level.

You do know those "entitlements" are funded through tax dollars that most of us paid into all of our working lives, right?

The ******* love to call them "entitlements" because it makes it easier to paint those who rely on them sound both privileged and lazy. Why not call them "refunds"?

To me, the only real "entitlement" programs in this country are those enjoyed by the rich who slide by without paying their fair share of income taxes (or those mega corporations that pay NO income taxes).

Also, funny how so many conservative politicians screech about "entitlements" when they've been on the public dole all their lives (either through tax breaks, CRP programs, school vouchers or their careers as politicians).

Just how much public money, OUR money, HAS Michelle Bachmann and her family received in their lives? Her husband receives Medicare and Medicaid payments through his clinic and they've received over $250,000 in farm subsidies.

I don't hear her screaming about THOSE "entitlements".

Remember with her and her supporters, it's always "I got mine; screw you."

[hideaway70]

My point is where do we stop? We all know bad things happen to good people. I know this and have had to deal with it myself. We can't save everybody from everything. We can't afford what we do now. The firing of her was in poor taste, but legal. But to state she is intilteled to or should be guaranteed something is wrong in my opinion.

Should that extend to the entitlement she would receive if she had a baby? It is her choice to get pregnant, so why she expect the government should protect her job?

[BigDeel]

Nice bait,but I'm not biting. You tell me the answer.
"She had used up her holiday earlier that year, following her mother and her uncle's deaths - and her father's diagnosis with leukaemia." And then her Son
"Executives at the company, which teaches would-be mechanics how to fix airplanes, asked Ms Rendon to sign an agreement indicating her job may not be secured for her should she take medical leave."

How many days are we talking here?

[hideaway70]

Nice bait,but I'm not biting. You tell me the answer.
"She had used up her holiday earlier that year, following her mother and her uncle's deaths - and her father's diagnosis with leukaemia." And then her Son
"Executives at the company, which teaches would-be mechanics how to fix airplanes, asked Ms Rendon to sign an agreement indicating her job may not be secured for her should she take medical leave."

How many days are we talking here?

That's a good point. She should schedule her deaths more wisely in the future.

[evilkumquat]

Nice bait,but I'm not biting. You tell me the answer.
"She had used up her holiday earlier that year, following her mother and her uncle's deaths - and her father's diagnosis with leukaemia." And then her Son
"Executives at the company, which teaches would-be mechanics how to fix airplanes, asked Ms Rendon to sign an agreement indicating her job may not be secured for her should she take medical leave."

How many days are we talking here?

"Compassionate Conservatism"