GOP Secretary of State - Charlie White

[HomeyG]

It's all in good nature, Homey. No offense intended.

I know Gray, I just wanted others to know it too.

[No Adventure Is Too Small]

White was found guilty by a jury of his peers and I have no problem with that. No where can you find that I was defending White or his actions, no where can you find that I justify bad behavior by one because of bad behavior of others. I can remember whenever someone brought up the economy under Obama and the immediate response was "he inherited it from Bush", a tactic still used although it's been Obama's economy well over 3 years. No where will you find that I accused anyone of trying to shift responsibility from Obama to Bush or they were pointing to bad behavior of others as justification. This has been an ongoing battle between Gray and myself for the last couple of years and I thought it was all in good nature but I might have been wrong. If it really bother others I'll cease to remind that the Dems have their own demons to contend with.

Homey, there is no doubt that there are plenty of bad apples in both parties.
A crook is a crook whether he labels him/herself liberal or conservative.
Same goes for liars and other miscreants, the shame is we all get stuck with them.
If only there were a way to weed them out before they get elected whichever
party they come from. The main thing is that we need to as a public serve them
their walking papers just as soon as we catch them in their deeds of misbehavior!

[HoosierHelen]

Homey, there is no doubt that there are plenty of bad apples in both parties.
A crook is a crook whether he labels him/herself liberal or conservative.

I agree with all you have said here. I certainly support equal enforcement against any fraud in our election system. It is hard for a novice such as myself to determine where the truth lies in some of these charges in the St. Joseph County charges.

With Indiana being such a strong Republican state, it is hard for me to imagine that Republicans would not have pursued legal charges against voter fraud against the Dems if they had a provable case? I had forgotten about these charges until Homey brought them up. When I Googled the topic, I did notice there were multiple articles dated during the month of Dec, 2011. Perhaps there still is some investigative activity ongoing in that case?

I am most confused as to how the rules work for someone like Charlie White being convicted of 6 felonies by a jury trial and yet the Judge has the possible authority to reduce these convictions to misdemeanors? I have always believed that our Judges have some latitude in sentencing guidelines. (thus the separate sentencing hearing). I didn't realize he could actually alter the findings of a jury conviction unless it occurred within an appeal trial?

I guess we will all stay tuned for the rest of the story......

[Todd Ianuzzi]

I'm really curious about your last sentence. What letters do you think I would send to White that he could use to smear other people? Sounds like you think I am just as culpable as White.

Homey, you have no culpability. But I think you set up a false dichotomy with White and the occurrence in st. Joe County. I barely recall the incident in st. Joe count and got mostly hits on White.

The last sentence was a little sarcastic. After conviction, White cries selective posecution and implicates Lugar, Bayh and Daniels. This will not sound good to the sentencing judge.

[Todd Ianuzzi]

I am most confused as to how the rules work for someone like Charlie White being convicted of 6 felonies by a jury trial and yet the Judge has the possible authority to reduce these convictions to misdemeanors? I have always believed that our Judges have some latitude in sentencing guidelines. (thus the separate sentencing hearing). I didn't realize he could actually alter the findings of a jury conviction unless it occurred within an appeal trial?

I guess we will all stay tuned for the rest of the story......

Helen, the judge has the discretion to sentence a class D felony to a class A misdemeanor. It is often called an "alternating misdemeanor" sentence. White would be eligible. The statute is printed out below.

I believe that White's whining and accusing Daniels, Bayh and Lugar of similiar offenses xxdemonstrate a lack of remorse and the sentencing judge may take that into consideration and give him a felony conviction, as he deserves.

IC 35-50-2-7
Class D felony
**** Sec. 7. (a) A person who commits a Class D felony shall be imprisoned for a fixed term of between six (6) months and three (3) years, with the advisory sentence being one and one-half (1 1/2) years. In addition, the person may be fined not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
****(b) Notwithstanding subsection (a), if a person has committed a Class D felony, the court may enter judgment of conviction of a Class A misdemeanor and sentence accordingly. However, the court shall enter a judgment of conviction of a Class D felony if:
********(1) the court finds that:
************(A) the person has committed a prior, unrelated felony for which judgment was entered as a conviction of a Class A misdemeanor; and
************(B) the prior felony was committed less than three (3) years before the second felony was committed;
********(2) the offense is domestic battery as a Class D felony under IC*35-42-2-1.3; or
********(3) the offense is possession of child pornography (IC 35-42-4-4(c)).
The court shall enter in the record, in detail, the reason for its action whenever it exercises the power to enter judgment of conviction of a Class A misdemeanor granted in this subsection.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.8. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.120; Acts 1982, P.L.204, SEC.40; P.L.334-1983, SEC.3; P.L.136-1987, SEC.7; P.L.167-1990, SEC.2; P.L.188-1999, SEC.9; P.L.98-2003, SEC.3; P.L.71-2005, SEC.10.

[HoosierHelen]

Thank you for the clarification, Todd. That indeed helps me understand the process that is occurring right now. We all need to wait to and see what happens at the sentencing hearing before knowing the rest of the story.

[HomeyG]

Here's one for you Todd,

If the judge decides to change the conviction from a felony to a misdemeanor that means he could still hold his elected position. Therefore, I'm assuming the only way to remove him from that office is through recall procedures.

[No Adventure Is Too Small]

Here's one for you Todd,

If the judge decides to change the conviction from a felony to a misdemeanor that means he could still hold his elected position. Therefore, I'm assuming the only way to remove him from that office is through recall procedures.

I know, I am not Todd, but my prediction would be that if the Judge actually makes (6) counts become
class A misdemeanors there is very little chance that Charlie would be recalled. I don't give a hoot what his politics
are I would say the same about a Democrat! It just strikes me as if a politician doesn't get held accountable for
one thing then the public usually lets them slide also. As much as I adored Clinton it still irks me that he cheated
on his wife, and I am in the minority, I imagine that felt she should have dumped him like a hot potato, but obviously
then comes power and money into the mix, those can be major generators of some interesting relationships to say the least!

[Todd Ianuzzi]

Here's one for you Todd,

If the judge decides to change the conviction from a felony to a misdemeanor that means he could still hold his elected position. Therefore, I'm assuming the only way to remove him from that office is through recall procedures.

Young are right, Homey. If the judge sentences White to a misdemeanor, white should get his office back. I do not think that Indiana has a recqall, but I am not sure. If I were a Republican polotico, I would want white out to stem the political damage. Sorry abot the mispellings, I am posting from a mob ile pbone.

[HomeyG]

Young are right, Homey. If the judge sentences White to a misdemeanor, white should get his office back. I do not think that Indiana has a recqall, but I am not sure. If I were a Republican polotico, I would want white out to stem the political damage. Sorry abot the mispellings, I am posting from a mob ile pbone.

Found a link that answers the recall question. You are right, Indiana does not have recall procedures but they do have impeachment procedures and it appears that he cannot be impeached either. I don't want him removed because of political damage to one party or the other, he should be removed because he damaged the State of Indiana and its residents. This leads me to my next question: "If White is removed from office what are the procedures for finding a replacement. Will his opponent from the last election be given the office as the Democrats want, or will someone be appointed by the Governor, or will there be a special election? Guess I will hit the internet to answer my own questions.

http://www.in.gov/sos/elections/file...m_Brochure.pdf

[HoosierHelen]

If I understand this correctly, there is a LARGE difference between the rulings of the civil and the criminal courts and the outcome of their individual decisions? This case makes normal boring legal decisions much more interesting in my perspective. Then there is this timing issue...Indiana certainly needs an active and legitimate Secretary of State. Do we wait for the Civil court and the Criminal court to align their calenders?

Bottom line: If White is out because the civil court ruled he was not a legitimate candidate, the Democrat Osili takes office. If White is out because of his criminal conviction, Daniels appoints a Republican.

http://www.journalgazette.net/articl...9991/1021/EDIT

[HomeyG]

I may have to retract my statement about impeachment. Found the following under Indiana Codes

IC 5-8-1-1
Officers; judges; prosecuting attorney; liability to impeachment
Sec. 1. (a) Under Article 6, Sections 7 and 8 of the Constitution of the State of Indiana, all state officers other than justices of the supreme court or judges of the court of appeals of Indiana or the Indiana tax court, all other judges, prosecuting attorneys, and all county, city, town, and township officers are liable to impeachment for any misdemeanor in office.
(b) A justice of the supreme court or a judge of the court of appeals of Indiana or of the Indiana tax court is subject to removal from office under Article 7, Section 11 of the Constitution of the State of Indiana.
(Formerly: Acts 1897, c.182, s.1.) As amended by P.L.3-1993, SEC.241.

IC 5-8-1-2

[Todd Ianuzzi]

For a good discussion of this issue check out Massons blog.

[HoosierHelen]

For a good discussion of this issue check out Massons blog.

Interesting...I had wondered why the defense attorney, Carl Brizzi, did not present any witnesses for defense? Perhaps Sherlock Holmes could help us with this one? :-)

[HoosierHelen]

Helen, the judge has the discretion to sentence a class D felony to a class A misdemeanor. It is often called an "alternating misdemeanor" sentence. White would be eligible. The statute is printed out below.

I believe that White's whining and accusing Daniels, Bayh and Lugar of similiar offenses xxdemonstrate a lack of remorse and the sentencing judge may take that into consideration and give him a felony conviction, as he deserves.

IC 35-50-2-7
Class D felony
**** Sec. 7. (a) A person who commits a Class D felony shall be imprisoned for a fixed term of between six (6) months and three (3) years, with the advisory sentence being one and one-half (1 1/2) years. In addition, the person may be fined not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
****(b) Notwithstanding subsection (a), if a person has committed a Class D felony, the court may enter judgment of conviction of a Class A misdemeanor and sentence accordingly. However, the court shall enter a judgment of conviction of a Class D felony if:
********(1) the court finds that:
************(A) the person has committed a prior, unrelated felony for which judgment was entered as a conviction of a Class A misdemeanor; and
************(B) the prior felony was committed less than three (3) years before the second felony was committed;
********(2) the offense is domestic battery as a Class D felony under IC*35-42-2-1.3; or
********(3) the offense is possession of child pornography (IC 35-42-4-4(c)).
The court shall enter in the record, in detail, the reason for its action whenever it exercises the power to enter judgment of conviction of a Class A misdemeanor granted in this subsection.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.8. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.120; Acts 1982, P.L.204, SEC.40; P.L.334-1983, SEC.3; P.L.136-1987, SEC.7; P.L.167-1990, SEC.2; P.L.188-1999, SEC.9; P.L.98-2003, SEC.3; P.L.71-2005, SEC.10.

It appears you made the correct prediction on this one Todd!

[Todd Ianuzzi]

It appears you made the correct prediction on this one Todd!

Yeah, I figured he'd pull the felonies. He should have taken his medicine, sulked for awhile, and he could perhaps make a comeback with only misdemeanors. Oh well...

BTW, there is a thread on Charlie White on Masson's Blog.

Massons Blog is a great blog and tends to focus more on state-wide issues.
And a dude purporting to be Charlie White replies on the blog under the initials CW. The great one himself.

[Todd Ianuzzi]

Here is what Charlie White posted on Massons Blog. Doesn't show much remorse. If a 20-year old guy facing a Class D Misdeanor for selling Marijuanna made this statement at his sentencing hearing, the kid would pull six months. It is likely that the Indiana Attorney Disciplinary Committe will see this.



Charlie White February 24, 2012 at 23:56 +00006 Paul,

Are you going to post my last comment?

CW

Reply
Doug February 25, 2012 at 8:25 +00006
The following was posted in the “About” section of my blog. That’s not where such things go, I think it was intended for this thread. It was posted by someone purporting, at least, to be Charlie White. I have no way of verifying. But, it read as follows:

Doug,

I don’t know if “Doug” is the host of this website, but I have read a stream of well intentioned but very ill-informed people on this blog. We have our own cell expert that has worked for ISP and FBI that backs us up on day to day data (yes, we heard from every judge, criminal defense and prosecutor buddy that the case was not made so we rested..that was a mistake). I will relay the suggestion to my ex-wife and her husband, who is a great guy, that I should go back to the basement and do home detention down there. Maybe you can monitor my son and I playing ping pong. You are a real hero to jump on the ill-informed mainstream media bandwagon and laugh at my family. Are you aware of all of the pre-trial motions based on well-established code and caselaw that are used every month for decades that were denied with no explanation? Do you know the law the Recount Commission used which the jury was not permitted to see? Whether you are a Liberarian, Democrat or Republican, you should be less concerned about grabbing the office and more concerned about all the liberties that will be affected if the conviction is affirmed.

Btw, it was fun that my ex-wife and my mother heard Bill Groth relay my testimony to Greg Purvis during a break in the hallway after the recount commission admonished everyone not to talk about it and to honor the separation of witnesses. When my ex-wife told Purvis what she heard, Purvis nervously said that Groth was his attorney??? What a joke. But what are rules?

So when and where shall we intall the cameras in the basement so you can watch our family’s every move Doug? And Doug, are you really a Libertarian? I will admit I was a Democrat who turned into a Republican. If we want to get into cell phone records I’m absolutely fine with that if I get another trial and put on a full defense and can counter mischaraterizations of that evidence, but does a Libertarian believe that the state should have state police canvassing neighborhoods, peeping into peoples garages, and using cell phone towers to come up with intent for voting in a precinct (Am I really that important? I think not). As an American, I don’t think they should do that to anyone no matter what the party. Kind of sounds like “1984″ to me. But perhaps I am living in the wrong time where the law should be applied and enforced equally to everyone whether you are rich, poor, famous or unpopular. Anyway, I will tell you when the podcast of the basement is ready to link with your freedom-loving website.

CW (yep, Im that CW)

Ain't God been good to Indiana.