Zimmerman Charged with Second-Degree Murders

**armyda** · 04-14-2012, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by michael medeski

you comparing tater (the security guard) to a crime scene investigator is a joke. hence the

I'll suggest that you stop the trolling and personal attacks. Now.

Common-Tater · 04-14-2012, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Todd Ianuzzi

The police investigator recommended filing murder charges after the incident but the local prosecutor refused to file charges, I recall. Wouldn't that lead to you believe that there was physical evidence to refute Zimmerman's story?

There could have been, but that type of scenario happens all the time. Law Enforcment is often frustrated with the prosecutor in Angola because he refuses to press charges, often against repeat offenders. A prosecutor refusing to press charges isn't uncommon. To draw conclusions based on just that isn't really enough.

Originally Posted by NightFire

my take on this story is a little different
Being they were both on the phone, one with a 911 operator (who told him to quit following) the other with his girlfriend, at the time of this incident
we also have the stand your ground law-which from my understanding, because Zimmerman had not identified himself to martin, Martin if he felt threatened (I would...being followed by an armed man who appears to be up to no good) would have a right to defend himself! To which Zimmerman then fires his pistol killing martin. The lack of identification, as shown by the 911 tapes, would make Zimmerman the aggressor- therefore guilty of first degree murder ( not 2nd) under Florida law. I see no real racial motive, just an over zealous watch patrol/vigilante.

Keep in mind that the tapes played by the media were edited. We did not hear any tape in its entirety. This is why we don't put people in a room, let them watch media reports, and then have them decide a person's fate. We don't know if Zimmerman identified himself or not. Identifying himself may or may not matter. Let's say you are being robbed at gunpoint and you manage to draw a concealed fire arma and kill the robber. Do you think it will matter that you didn't identify yourself to the robber before killing him? It just depends on the specifics of what went down, which we don't know yet. Zimmerman was neighborhood watch, not a police officer. The police are required to identify themselves as the police. But that's not the case in Zimmerman's position. And to my knowledge Trayvon was not on the phone with his girlfriend at the time of the shooting. He called her prior to confronting Zimmerman, which I believe he told his girlfriend he was going to do. But we don't have a recording of that conversation. So his girlfriend could say anything about that conversation. But she has no evidence to back up her story.

Originally Posted by NightFire

Maybe Tater could comment on this as to that if over-zealousness of this type would disqualify someone from a job as a security guard.

I have a master's in Justice and Security Administration. The "justice" part encompassing law enforcement and the courts. Again, I do not have field experience in those areas. We debated cases like this all the time in class. I really can't speak to Zimmerman's action from the point of view of someone in security because Zimmerman was not acting as a security officer. In security you represent your client or your employer. A neighborhood watch Captain does not represent anyone. Neighborhood Watch has even less authority than a security officer. Security has a witten set of procedures known as Post Orders. These are procedures drawn out that have been agreed to by the client or employer which gives the officer the authority to respond to events in a specific manner. Neighborhood Watch are always..ALWAYS...advised by police to observe and report ONLY. You don't approach or confront anybody. You let the police investigate. If it turns out to be nothing, the police make that determination. The upside is that at least the event would be reported in case it had been something more serious.

As for Zimmerman being overzealous, sure. I don't think anyone would refute that. But we don't know if he confronted Trayvon or if Trayvon confronted him. If we go by what the girlfriend reported, Trayvon was going to confront Zimmerman. Of course Trayvon's mother believes that Zimmerman, stalked, confronted and murdered her son. There isn't much to support first degree murder here. If anything, I think they could prove manslaughter, but not 2nd degree murder. 2nd degree murder is probably being charged to appease the masses and prevent riots. I think it's a stretch to say that just becasue Zimmerman didn't recognize a black kid in his neighborhood that his intent was to hunt down and kill him.

Originally Posted by HoosierHelen

A lot of what you say Tater seems reasonable to me. The distance between Martin and Zimmerman when the gun was fired, signs of a physical scuffle on Martin's body, etc. These seem to be most relevant to the case.

What I do not like is the part of your quote I have included here. Given this kind of logic, a criminal would always have the greatest motive to leave no witnesses behind at any crime scene. It will be a most interesting case to follow. Seems as if Florida gets an unusually high number of high profile murders to me?

At this time, I don't feel I understand what transpired enough to form an opinion (other than Zimmerman should have discontinued his pursuit when the 911 operator instructed him).
As Todd mentioned earlier, that instruction was not of the same authority as if a Police Officer had made it. Personally, had it been me, I would have followed that 911 operator's' instruction.

Perhaps in the event of 1st degree murder a person would plan his actions to prevent witnesses. But we're talking about somehing that happened in a residential area in plain view. I don't know how a person could hope to plan a murder in the middle of an area like that and not have witnesses. I can totally see a real witness in this case not stepping forward if what they saw supports Zimmerman. There has been such a response of anger (due primarily to the fiction presented by the media) that anyone supporting Zimmerman would risk being ridiculed and attacked by those supporting Trayvon. This is a case of how an over-zealous media can really impact a case and cause more damage than good. The media was printing everything they could find whether it was verified or not. They just printed it. For me, that's being irresponsible with the duty they accept to seek out and report the truth. It seems the media doesn't research much anymore. They are so eager to be the first to print something that they forego much, if any research at all.

One thing being overlooked is that this was a gated community. That would make an unrecognized individual even more suspicious than if it had just been a public access community.

**michael medeski** · 04-14-2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by armyda

I'll suggest that you stop the trolling and personal attacks. Now.

personal attacks? the

is a joke not an attack.

**krazetrain** · 04-14-2012, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Common-Tater

One thing being overlooked is that this was a gated community. That would make an unrecognized individual even more suspicious than if it had just been a public access community.

If this was a gated community, why would you have a watch Captain at all? Gated doesn't mean squat, if you consider the reason for watch captain was, account of a recent rash of break ins. Trayvon's father lives in there, so actually, Trayvon would be a authorized visitor. Looks like an employment option for a security professional ! That would be preferable, I would think, than having a watch captian with a gun. Regardless of how well intentioned Zimmerman, may have been, had he not been carrying a weapon, we wouldn't be having this thread to discuss it. Zimmerman would of waited for police or for someone to assist him. Especially considering that he is a man,(with a gun) and he let a youth, just becoming a man thump him badly enough that he had to shoot him.

Common-Tater · 04-14-2012, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by krazetrain

If this was a gated community, why would you have a watch Captain at all? Gated doesn't mean squat, if you consider the reason for watch captain was, account of a recent rash of break ins.

Not all gated communities employ security. Some just have a card reader at the gate or a punch button code panel.

Originally Posted by krazetrain

Trayvon's father lives in there, so actually, Trayvon would be a authorized visitor.

Sure, but he didn't live with his dad full time and he had his hoodie up, trying to cover his face (as he told his girlfriend on the phone - her claim). He was a tall kid so at 17, he'd have looked like an adult.