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Thread: lets be fair

  1. #1

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    Default lets be fair

    It is really funny, how some people on this post, continue to back, the republican agenda.


    http://www.politicususa.com/bernie-s...gop-oligarchs/

  2. #2

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    Default Re: lets be fair

    In case you don't want to read left biased reports


    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...678464912.html

  3. #3

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    Default Re: lets be fair

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/15/news...axes/index.htm

    "If lawmakers added a new 50% tax rate to taxable income over $1 million, that could raise an additional $34 billion, according to the Tax Policy Center. So adding that new top rate might raise at least an additional $340 billion over 10 years."

    "What about tax rates on capital gains and dividends? If they were raised to 20% for individuals making more than $200,000 (and couples making more than $250,000) that could raise roughly $107 billion over a decade, the Treasury Department estimated last year. The rate increase would raise less if it were limited to just those making more than $1 million."

    "In the context of deficit reduction, $450 billion is less than 5% of the new debt the country is on track to accrue over the next decade. But it's a lot of money in terms of potentially valuable government programs that might otherwise need to be slashed absent additional revenue."

    The government is still spending too much $$$$

  4. #4

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    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDeel View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/15/news...axes/index.htm

    "If lawmakers added a new 50% tax rate to taxable income over $1 million, that could raise an additional $34 billion, according to the Tax Policy Center. So adding that new top rate might raise at least an additional $340 billion over 10 years."

    "What about tax rates on capital gains and dividends? If they were raised to 20% for individuals making more than $200,000 (and couples making more than $250,000) that could raise roughly $107 billion over a decade, the Treasury Department estimated last year. The rate increase would raise less if it were limited to just those making more than $1 million."

    "In the context of deficit reduction, $450 billion is less than 5% of the new debt the country is on track to accrue over the next decade. But it's a lot of money in terms of potentially valuable government programs that might otherwise need to be slashed absent additional revenue."

    The government is still spending too much $$$$
    i agree that we spend to much, I also know that only so much can be raised by increasing taxes on the very rich. That being said, decreasing taxes on the very rich, and cutting expenditures on the poor, is also a recipe for disaster. I cannot understand why our congress would be all for decreasing entitlements to American citizens, while at the same time spending millions on foreign countries? I know the tired argument that will be given is that we have to maintain relationships with these foreigners, but what about the relationships with our own people?

  5. #5
    Common-Tater Guest

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by blue adept View Post
    i agree that we spend to much, I also know that only so much can be raised by increasing taxes on the very rich. That being said, decreasing taxes on the very rich, and cutting expenditures on the poor, is also a recipe for disaster. I cannot understand why our congress would be all for decreasing entitlements to American citizens, while at the same time spending millions on foreign countries? I know the tired argument that will be given is that we have to maintain relationships with these foreigners, but what about the relationships with our own people?
    I see more of the problem coming from those people who are not self reliant and therefore rely on the government for everything. When I was growing up in the 80s most people worked. But then most women stayed at home. With a push for women to enter the workforce there are less jobs for men. I'm not saying women should stay at home, but there's no such thing as a traditonal family anymore. Both of my grandparents worked. My grandfather worked for the IRS and my grandmother was a secretary for a bank executive. But they both woked daytime hours while their kids were at school. At night, my grandmother was always home and when my grandfather wasn't working late, he was home, working on their farm. He was always busy. You don't see much of that anymore. People get home and veg out on the couch. They don't keep themeselves busy with constructive hobbies. People are too picky about what kind of jobs they will take. I remember when people were just happy to have a job. Even if it wasn't something they loved, they worked it until another opportunity became available. People shouldn't be living on governmnt assistance. They should be using it as a stepping stone to get back on their feet. But the governemnt doens't push that. They almost make it so that once you're on it, it's hard to get off. The governemnt neds to require these people get invovled with progams that help them obtain the skills they need to get decent jobs...not just hand out free services....often these people pay no taxes because they're not working yet claim thousands on returns because they have kids. Even the rich... you shouldn't be able to claim more on your tax returns than you've paid into the system. The system we have not is just rediculous and makes no sense at all.

  6. #6
    Todd Ianuzzi Guest

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    I see more of the problem coming from those people who are not self reliant and therefore rely on the government for everything. When I was growing up in the 80s most people worked. But then most women stayed at home. With a push for women to enter the workforce there are less jobs for men. I'm not saying women should stay at home, but there's no such thing as a traditonal family anymore. Both of my grandparents worked. My grandfather worked for the IRS and my grandmother was a secretary for a bank executive. But they both woked daytime hours while their kids were at school. At night, my grandmother was always home and when my grandfather wasn't working late, he was home, working on their farm. He was always busy. You don't see much of that anymore. People get home and veg out on the couch. They don't keep themeselves busy with constructive hobbies. People are too picky about what kind of jobs they will take. I remember when people were just happy to have a job. Even if it wasn't something they loved, they worked it until another opportunity became available. People shouldn't be living on governmnt assistance. They should be using it as a stepping stone to get back on their feet. But the governemnt doens't push that. They almost make it so that once you're on it, it's hard to get off. The governemnt neds to require these people get invovled with progams that help them obtain the skills they need to get decent jobs...not just hand out free services....often these people pay no taxes because they're not working yet claim thousands on returns because they have kids. Even the rich... you shouldn't be able to claim more on your tax returns than you've paid into the system. The system we have not is just rediculous and makes no sense at all.

    The traditional family you refer to was a blip in history. Prior to the 1850s or so, most people in America were farmers, small shop owners and artisans and craftspeople. They worked from home and the kids were raised in the shop right along with mom and dad. When the country industrialized in the last half of the nineteenth century, men went to industrial jobs and people left the farms. Many women still worked, some did not. It depended on the wealth of the family and whether they could afford servants.

    The jolt of the depression disrupted many things and many women assisted the family in anyway they could. The golden age of the traditional family was 1946 to 1970 when 42% of the women participated in the workforce.

    You seem to misunderstand "government assistance," also. There is virtually no assistance for able-bodied adults. TANF, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, has a maximum amount of 60 months. TANF requires recipients to participate in work force activites. One of these activites is workforce training.

    Simply put, welfare is not longer a way of life. Being poor, regretably, is.

  7. #7

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    You don't see much of that anymore. People get home and veg out on the couch. They don't keep themeselves busy with constructive hobbies.
    that might be true about the people you know, but it's false when you try to paint everyone with the same generalizations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    People are too picky about what kind of jobs they will take. I remember when people were just happy to have a job. Even if it wasn't something they loved, they worked it until another opportunity became available.
    who are these "people" you keep talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    People shouldn't be living on governmnt assistance. They should be using it as a stepping stone to get back on their feet. But the governemnt doens't push that. They almost make it so that once you're on it, it's hard to get off. The governemnt neds to require these people get invovled with progams that help them obtain the skills they need to get decent jobs...not just hand out free services....often these people pay no taxes because they're not working yet claim thousands on returns because they have kids.


    you sure like beating that old welfare horse. are those statements backed by facts, or are you just making stuff up again?

    i think you need to learn more about gov't assistant programs instead of posting your opinions like they are the truth. at the very least use "IMO" so we the readers can decipher what is actually true from what you think to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    The system we have not is just rediculous and makes no sense at all.
    i agree, and even though it's hard to read, this is the only statement in that humongous paragraph that makes sense to me.
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  8. #8

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    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    I see more of the problem coming from those people who are not self reliant and therefore rely on the government for everything. When I was growing up in the 80s most people worked. But then most women stayed at home. With a push for women to enter the workforce there are less jobs for men. I'm not saying women should stay at home, but there's no such thing as a traditonal family anymore. Both of my grandparents worked. My grandfather worked for the IRS and my grandmother was a secretary for a bank executive. But they both woked daytime hours while their kids were at school. At night, my grandmother was always home and when my grandfather wasn't working late, he was home, working on their farm. He was always busy. You don't see much of that anymore. People get home and veg out on the couch. They don't keep themeselves busy with constructive hobbies. People are too picky about what kind of jobs they will take. I remember when people were just happy to have a job. Even if it wasn't something they loved, they worked it until another opportunity became available. People shouldn't be living on governmnt assistance. They should be using it as a stepping stone to get back on their feet. But the governemnt doens't push that. They almost make it so that once you're on it, it's hard to get off. The governemnt neds to require these people get invovled with progams that help them obtain the skills they need to get decent jobs...not just hand out free services....often these people pay no taxes because they're not working yet claim thousands on returns because they have kids. Even the rich... you shouldn't be able to claim more on your tax returns than you've paid into the system. The system we have not is just rediculous and makes no sense at all.
    I feel the way our tax monies are being spent are ridiculous also. In my view, those receiving individual welfare are not who concern me. It is the wide spread large corporate welfare being given to well established, extremely profitable corporations. I disagree with tax subsidies given to our oil & gas companies (subsidies is just an alternate word for 'breaks' in their case). I'm not educated in economic matters on commodities that receive federal tax subsidies, yet, I do have a limited point of reference on this topic.

    My ex-husband worked for a large private corp that had huge industrial sized farms out in Kansas, Nebraska and Oklahoma. On those farms they raised cows and crops used in the milk, ice cream, bread, cookies, and other products sold in their large chain of stores throughout Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas. The entire corporation was privately owned by a husband and wife. One time while visiting with them over a dinner, we were discussing the price for a gallon of milk sold in his stores. He informed me that he could sell milk in his stores for almost 50% less and still turn a profit, yet, he was unable to because of Federal regulations on the price of milk. Now, I find myself wondering, if the Fed government had the ability to regulate the price of milk sold to our people, how is it that they do not have the power to regulate the price of gas sold to our people?

    I hate hearing from the oil & gas people that if government removes the subsidies, we the people will be paying the difference. What about they shrink their extreme profits a bit?

    If there are any farmers or oil & gas producers out there that can speak regarding the price regulations imposed on them by the Fed Government, I would very much like to hear their thoughts on these regulations?
    "It is the power of thought that gives man power over nature."
    Hans Christian Anderson

  9. #9
    Common-Tater Guest

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Ianuzzi View Post
    You seem to misunderstand "government assistance," also. There is virtually no assistance for able-bodied adults. TANF, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, has a maximum amount of 60 months. TANF requires recipients to participate in work force activites. One of these activites is workforce training.

    Simply put, welfare is not longer a way of life. Being poor, regretably, is.
    Unfortunately there are people who abuse the system. The system is not as discretionary as it should be and many people who really don't need the assistance in the same was most do slip through. Some with very minor physical ailments could work jobs with some limitations. It seems the government will provide assistance if a person has a simple limp. There are also those with treatable ailment such as being bipolar that get assistance. With medication and some counciling, these people can contribute just as much as anyone else. Yet they can get assistance indefinitely. These are the types of situations I'm talking of. There are quite a few who do abuse the system which sheds a bad light on the entire system.

  10. #10
    Common-Tater Guest

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierHelen View Post
    I hate hearing from the oil & gas people that if government removes the subsidies, we the people will be paying the difference. What about they shrink their extreme profits a bit?
    I'm not a fan of tax breaks for the extreme wealthy either. It's just a way for these people to make even more money that they'll never spend. It's funny, I saw a guy at McDonald's today drop a penny at the drive through window and never gave it a second glance. He was driving an older model ford pickup that was rusting and falling apart. A year and a half ago I saw a guy driving a black proche and he also dropped a penny. But he opened his car door and picked it up. In my experience, those who have more will penny pinch. Those who barely have anything don't seem to sweat the pennies. It's interesting.

  11. #11

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    It's funny, I saw a guy at McDonald's today drop a penny at the drive through window and never gave it a second glance. He was driving an older model ford pickup that was rusting and falling apart. A year and a half ago I saw a guy driving a black proche and he also dropped a penny. But he opened his car door and picked it up.
    that's amazing!
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  12. #12

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    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    Unfortunately there are people who abuse the system. The system is not as discretionary as it should be and many people who really don't need the assistance in the same was most do slip through. Some with very minor physical ailments could work jobs with some limitations. It seems the government will provide assistance if a person has a simple limp. There are also those with treatable ailment such as being bipolar that get assistance. With medication and some counciling, these people can contribute just as much as anyone else. Yet they can get assistance indefinitely. These are the types of situations I'm talking of. There are quite a few who do abuse the system which sheds a bad light on the entire system.
    So, to stop people from abusing the system, are you saying get rid of it, and forget those that really need it, or reform the system, and protect those most at need? My take on it, there will always be those that can scam the system, and I would rather pay them, and make sure the people that are in desperate need, are helped, rather than throw out the wheat with the chaff.

  13. #13
    Todd Ianuzzi Guest

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    Unfortunately there are people who abuse the system. The system is not as discretionary as it should be and many people who really don't need the assistance in the same was most do slip through. Some with very minor physical ailments could work jobs with some limitations. It seems the government will provide assistance if a person has a simple limp. There are also those with treatable ailment such as being bipolar that get assistance. With medication and some counciling, these people can contribute just as much as anyone else. Yet they can get assistance indefinitely. These are the types of situations I'm talking of. There are quite a few who do abuse the system which sheds a bad light on the entire system.
    There probably are people that abuse the system. But getting SSI disability is very difficult to do.

    If you had some data we could probably adress the matter more fully.

  14. #14

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    Default Re: lets be fair

    Anyone got a guess on how much is wasted on unqualified recipients of individual welfare? I wonder how that figure might compare to the subsidies our gas & oil producers receive in tax relief while they bring home record profits to their corporations and stock holders each year?

    Unqualified recipients of individual welfare should obviously NOT be receiving benefits. My point is are we looking at a dripping faucet to fix our water leak while ignoring a burst underground water pipe?
    "It is the power of thought that gives man power over nature."
    Hans Christian Anderson

  15. #15

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Ianuzzi View Post
    If you had some data we could probably adress the matter more fully.


    what an excellent suggestion todd!
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  16. #16
    Common-Tater Guest

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by blue adept View Post
    So, to stop people from abusing the system, are you saying get rid of it, and forget those that really need it, or reform the system, and protect those most at need? My take on it, there will always be those that can scam the system, and I would rather pay them, and make sure the people that are in desperate need, are helped, rather than throw out the wheat with the chaff.
    I'm saying refine the system so it's more difficult to scam.

  17. #17

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    I'm saying refine the system so it's more difficult to scam.
    and we are saying the system is refined and not as easy to scam as you think. we are still waiting on your data so we can address this matter more fully.
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  18. #18
    Todd Ianuzzi Guest

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Common-Tater View Post
    I'm saying refine the system so it's more difficult to scam.

    The system has been scammed, but I see no evidence that it is easy to scam. I know that the tax system is easy for small business people to scam by claiming personal expenses as business expenses. Far more is lost to fraudulent deductions that welfare fraud.

    We have to go back to Ronald Reagan and his Cadillac driving welfare queen to get a handle on the meme. It has morphed into a general hatred on the far right.

    If you read far right media, the Republicans are the "producers" and the democrats (Blacks, Mexicans, but not huge number of poor whites) are the "takers" or the leeches. They base this on resentment, bigotry, some racism and frustration with their own prospects. The figure that 47% of American households don't pay federal income taxes feeds into this. Nearly everyone pays FICA and Medicare taxes for the two biggest entitlement programs we have, but somehow half the country is "stealing" from the other half.

    The reason many people pay no federal income taxes is a result of stagnant and falling wages and steady increases in exemptions, deductions and tax credits. If these rise while wages stagnate, fewer people pay taxes.

  19. #19
    Common-Tater Guest

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Ianuzzi View Post
    The reason many people pay no federal income taxes is a result of stagnant and falling wages and steady increases in exemptions, deductions and tax credits. If these rise while wages stagnate, fewer people pay taxes.
    10% flat tax, no exemptions. Get rid of all other taxes like sales, death, car, property...etc. This way everyone pays their fair share. The more you make, the more you pay.

  20. #20
    Torget Guest

    Default Re: lets be fair

    Not that this will make a difference to any of you as your minds are already made up on the matter, but, I know of several people who scam the welfare system quite easily. They live in several hundred thousand dollar houses on the lake, drive cadillacs and hummers and receive assistance for their kids. One that I know personally works a full time job and not only claims her 2 kids, but the 2 kids that are her current boyfriends AND her sisters 2 kids as her own and brings in over 1200 dollars a month in food stamps. She proudly tells people that because of all the assistance she gets from claiming all of those kids that ARE NOT HERS, she is able to eat steaks every night of the week.

    You may ask if she has been reported? She has, and the crux of it is they call her and tell her when they are coming to check on things because they have received reports about her scamming the system . So she knows exactly when to have all of these kids in the house for the visit.

    So take your it's difficult to scam the system comments and shove it!!

    I struggle and eat mac and cheese while this lazy scammer eats steaks and not only gets away with it, but brags about it. How exactly is that contributing to society? How is that giving a helping hand? Where is the incentive to get off assistance? It isn't, it isn't, and there is none!

    Yes I know there are people who truely need it. But they have a long way to go to tighten it up.

    Why are there several people who live in lake homes and drive 40-60k vehicles getting assistance? It makes me sick!!

    I'm out.

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