Proposed new sign ordinance: an open door to billboards?

[Mike_Walter]

At its regular meeting at 6:00 p.m., June 12, in the City Council chambers, the Auburn Advisory Plan Commission will hold a public hearing on its long-awaited (-dreaded?) proposed sign ordinance. If approved, the ordinance will go to the City Council for approval, rejection or amendment. Here's the link to the draft ordinance:

ftp://ftp.ci.auburn.in.us/auburn/out...0Ordinance.pdf

Although the existing sign rules have long needed a makeover, this proposal contains a couple of poison pills. One is an end to Auburn's famous ban on billboards ("off-premises" signs), which would now be allowed in commercial and industrial zoning districts (page 32). Less dramatic, but still obnoxious to lots of people is a $3 to $5 permit fee for garage sale signs (pages 15 and 37). I am highly disinclined to vote for anything that contains either of these changes.

Your comments, please.

[ARMYMPVET]

Auburn does not have a ban on billboards. It is against the law to ban billboards. Billboards are allowed in I-2 zoning district.(See code below) Remember in the late 80s or early 90s when Auburn tried for a ban on all billboards and Burkhart Signs sued the city and won? It had every thing to do with that freedom of speach thing that people like to throw around from time to time. We currently have a billboard with two advertising faces in city limits right now located by the street department and old electric works building; grandfathered in but still there.

City of Auburn Code of Ordinances:Section 150.480. Off Premises Signs.
A) Zoning District
Off-premises signs will be permitted only in zoning district I-2. (Heavy Industrial)

As for the 3-5 dollar garage sale sign fee. Other communities in Indiana have this fee as well to generate funds for city projects. Auburn is actually rarity in not having this fee in place. Is this really too high a fee for a legal sign. Garage sale signs require a permit now. No fee. How many garage sale signs are out there right now in violation of ordinance? The 3-5 dollar permit fee is a suggestion only at this time. There may still be no fee. that is for the Plan Commision to decide and the council to vote on.

[Mike_Walter]

1. The proposed ordinance allows off-premises signs in C-2, I-1 and I-2 districts. That's a big change.

2. I really don't care what kinds of fees other communities charge families to hold yard sales, I care about the people who live here.

[nathandiehl]

What is the rationale for charging for the signs?

[HomeyG]

What is the rationale for charging for the signs?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[ARMYMPVET]

The proposed changes to the current ordinances are to offset the man hours the building and planning department spends processing permits. Councilman Walter, I too care about the citizens of our community but at the same time I do not want to see ourselves being short changed. I understand your concerns about the billboards. I do not want to see alot of these things either. However, with the proposed setback regulations, not that many billboards will meet the requirements and therefore will not be permitted.

[Chiguy65]

The proposed changes to the current ordinances are to offset the man hours the building and planning department spends processing permits. Councilman Walter, I too care about the citizens of our community but at the same time I do not want to see ourselves being short changed. I understand your concerns about the billboards. I do not want to see alot of these things either. However, with the proposed setback regulations, not that many billboards will meet the requirements and therefore will not be permitted.

If you cared about the citzens of Auburn, MR. ARMYMPVET, then you to would be upset that they want to TAX us on OUR garage sales. If the city of Auburn want any part of my once a year garage sale... I say come help me with the sale. Once again big Goverment trying to get more of our money. I say "NO"

[ARMYMPVET]

This is only a proposed fee. If it does not clear the planning commision it will not even go to the common council for a vote. If this fee could somehow reduce other fees I would have no problem paying it. I personally would like to see fees like this go into an account to perhaps help people in town having financial difficulties to buy groceries or make their utility bill. Like I said earlier,gargae sale sign permits are currrently free of charge. Also, like I said earlier, is 3-5 dollars too much to pay for a LEGAL sign? I too would prefer them to remain free but that may be out of our hands.

[blue adept]

This is only a proposed fee. If it does not clear the planning commision it will not even go to the common council for a vote. If this fee could somehow reduce other fees I would have no problem paying it. I personally would like to see fees like this go into an account to perhaps help people in town having financial difficulties to buy groceries or make their utility bill. Like I said earlier,gargae sale sign permits are currrently free of charge. Also, like I said earlier, is 3-5 dollars too much to pay for a LEGAL sign? I too would prefer them to remain free but that may be out of our hands.

Only 3-5 dollars is always how it starts. I have listened to long to politicians that say it is only..............for too long. It never stays only!

[ARMYMPVET]

I wonder how many people know that there are fines associated with the sign ordinance since that seems to be the subject at hand? The city CAN enforce a fine of up to $2500.00 per sign per occurance for signage placed with NO permit. Thats right, TWO THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS per sign, per occurance. This is on the books. The City so far has chosen not to enforce the fines portion of this ordinance but could, LEGALLY at any point. If "Big Government" really wanted your money,they would have it.

[hairypumper]

I wonder how many people know that there are fines associated with the sign ordinance since that seems to be the subject at hand? The city CAN enforce a fine of up to $2500.00 per sign per occurance for signage placed with NO permit. Thats right, TWO THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS per sign, per occurance. This is on the books. The City so far has chosen not to enforce the fines portion of this ordinance but could, LEGALLY at any point. If "Big Government" really wanted your money,they would have it.

I can think of one reason they don't enforce it. How would you feel if someone went around and put up a hundred garage sale signs with your address on them? Can you imagine the courts being choked with people fighting fraudulent garage sale sign fines?

[ARMYMPVET]

I agree, it would be extremely difficult to enforce the fines for this ordinance. The thing is, most people dont know about this. That is why I would like to see ALL ordinances postedonthe city website. not just the ones that become someones crusade.

[armyda]

I agree, it would be extremely difficult to enforce the fines for this ordinance. The thing is, most people dont know about this. That is why I would like to see ALL ordinances postedonthe city website. not just the ones that become someones crusade.

Here you go: http://www.ci.auburn.in.us/index.php...f-ordinances1/

That was simple.

[ARMYMPVET]

Yes it was simple. Thank you. I was told they were there but was not aware of their location.

[ARMYMPVET]

http://www.ci.auburn.in.us/index.php...pment/permits/

Here is a link to the permit application.
Hope this may help someone.

[blue adept]

I wonder how many people know that there are fines associated with the sign ordinance since that seems to be the subject at hand? The city CAN enforce a fine of up to $2500.00 per sign per occurance for signage placed with NO permit. Thats right, TWO THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS per sign, per occurance. This is on the books. The City so far has chosen not to enforce the fines portion of this ordinance but could, LEGALLY at any point. If "Big Government" really wanted your money,they would have it.

Kendallville has an ordinance against riding your bike on downtown sidewalks, because of an old lady that was knocked down and seriously hurt many years ago. They tried to enforce it at first, until a rich kids parent was given a fine, it has never been enforced since. garage sale signs would be the same.

[Mike_Walter]

This is only a proposed fee. If it does not clear the planning commision it will not even go to the common council for a vote. If this fee could somehow reduce other fees I would have no problem paying it. I personally would like to see fees like this go into an account to perhaps help people in town having financial difficulties to buy groceries or make their utility bill. Like I said earlier,gargae sale sign permits are currrently free of charge. Also, like I said earlier, is 3-5 dollars too much to pay for a LEGAL sign? I too would prefer them to remain free but that may be out of our hands.

I appreciate the appeal to warm, touchy-feely liberal sentiments, but it's a basic principle that fees be reasonably calculated to defray the cost of a service...not assessed or used for a purpose other than providing the service. Worthy as it might be to help distressed people pay for groceries or utilities, that's what the township trustee does. Sign fees go to defray the cost of issuing a permit, inspecting compliance, etc. The question for me is whether it's good public policy to put a fee on an element of local commerce that enables families to buy and sell second-hand baby clothes. Same thing for the permit requirement. If someone places a sign in an illegal location, then they risk a fine; but that's not the same as making people troop to the second floor of City Hall to get a bureaucratic blessing whenever they want to have a yard sale. By the way, the proposed exception for not-for-profit organizations probably violates the Equal Privileges and Immunities Clause (Article I, Section 23) of the Indiana Constitution.

[ARMYMPVET]

Auburn too has an ordinance against riding a bike or skateboard on downtown sidewalks. Garrett bans citizens from walking their dog, even on a leash on downtown sidewalks. (Mayor stepped in poop) To my knowledge, these are not enforced too strictly either. But, as Councilman Walter rightly points out is a risk they take. It would be nice if these permits could remain free of charge, but lets be realistic, these fees keep taxes as low as possible. Yes,we still pay a sales tax and have property taxes, but all the services we enjoy cannot be paid for by taxes alone.

[ARMYMPVET]

I appreciate the appeal to warm, touchy-feely liberal sentiments, but it's a basic principle that fees be reasonably calculated to defray the cost of a service...not assessed or used for a purpose other than providing the service. Worthy as it might be to help distressed people pay for groceries or utilities, that's what the township trustee does. Sign fees go to defray the cost of issuing a permit, inspecting compliance, etc. The question for me is whether it's good public policy to put a fee on an element of local commerce that enables families to buy and sell second-hand baby clothes. Same thing for the permit requirement. If someone places a sign in an illegal location, then they risk a fine; but that's not the same as making people troop to the second floor of City Hall to get a bureaucratic blessing whenever they want to have a yard sale. By the way, the proposed exception for not-for-profit organizations probably violates the Equal Privileges and Immunities Clause (Article I, Section 23) of the Indiana Constitution.

Is this the new definition of someone who cares whether or not his or her neighbors can afford basic utilities and food for their children? Touchy-feely liberal? Ok.

[blue adept]

Auburn too has an ordinance against riding a bike or skateboard on downtown sidewalks. Garrett bans citizens from walking their dog, even on a leash on downtown sidewalks. (Mayor stepped in poop) To my knowledge, these are not enforced too strictly either. But, as Councilman Walter rightly points out is a risk they take. It would be nice if these permits could remain free of charge, but lets be realistic, these fees keep taxes as low as possible. Yes,we still pay a sales tax and have property taxes, but all the services we enjoy cannot be paid for by taxes alone.

There comes a point, when a city does not enforce an ordinance, that it no longer has effect in a court of law. Kendallville has exceeded that limit, as I am sure other cities have.