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Thread: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

  1. #1

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    Default Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    What is this garbage I read in today's paper?

    Apparently there is a rumor going around that the old 101 building could be a possible strip club so the city is now scrambling to do all it can to discourage it.

    Frankly, if that's what it takes to make the building profitable (it's gone through HOW many closings now?) then more power to the new owners if they turn it into a successful enterprise.

    However, what REALLY rankles is how the city is proposing a so-called "skin tax" on the business, should it become, in fact, a topless bar. The idea behind this tax is that the monies collected will be filtered to sexual assault victim organizations. This infuriates me because it is trying to make a non-existent (or at best, completely unproven) connection between "strip club" and "violence against women". I tried searching Google for any legitimate scientific studies linking the two and the ONLY thing I found was mention of "certain studies" in an article about similar skin taxes in Illinois and Texas. No actual links to the studies themselves.

    A tax on cigarettes and tobacco that helps offset the health care costs associated with smoking is logical because there's enough scientific evidence linking the two. A tax on alcohol is also merited for the same reason and supported by research.

    A tax on topless dancing to pay for rape counseling is just prejudice.
    Apples are good,
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    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    I completely agree Evil, feels like nothing more than a shakedown. If they were specifically funneling the money to organizations that dealt solely with "violence against exotic dancers" I may think differently. But to my knowledge that has not been an issue.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Update:

    ANGOLA - An attorney for the potential buyer of the former Sliderís restaurant has told Angola officials his client wants to close on the property and establish a sexually oriented business at the Wendell Jacob Avenue property.

    Full story (requires subscription):

    http://www.kpcnews.com/index.php?opt...ticle&id=41934

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by james_t View Post
    Update:

    ANGOLA - An attorney for the potential buyer of the former Sliderís restaurant has told Angola officials his client wants to close on the property and establish a sexually oriented business at the Wendell Jacob Avenue property.

    Full story (requires subscription):

    http://www.kpcnews.com/index.php?opt...ticle&id=41934
    I guess I don't understand why the article is titled "Documents show intent for sex business in Angola", wouldn't it be more truthful to say "Documents show intent for sexually oriented business in Angola" or even, "Documents show intent for exotic dance club in Angola"?

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbass View Post
    I guess I don't understand why the article is titled "Documents show intent for sex business in Angola", wouldn't it be more truthful to say "Documents show intent for sexually oriented business in Angola" or even, "Documents show intent for exotic dance club in Angola"?
    Your first option ("sexually-oriented business") is pretty close to the original headline I was given and is more accurate, but that wouldn't fit in the headline space I had on our home page, so I had to shorten it. Not the best headline in the world, I'll admit. I like the one we have on today's version of the story better.

  6. #6
    HomeyG Guest

    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Can't believe there are some that want city officials to set aside their principles because of profit. Sounds like a capitalist to me.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by HomeyG View Post
    Can't believe there are some that want city officials to set aside their principles because of profit. Sounds like a capitalist to me.
    When principles run counter to the First Amendment, you are ****** right I want them to set them aside.

    Also, please don't confuse issues.

    I am absolutely socialist when it comes to any function of society that actually impacts human lives. Food, shelter, clothing, medical care, protection... these are good examples of services that common sense demand be socialized. Do you want to be in any position where someone has to decide whether or not it's cheaper to let you live or die? You would be outraged if a fireman sat idle while someone's house burned down because they didn't pay their "fire premium". You would demand retribution if a cop allowed a rapist or child molester go free simply because the victim didn't have enough money to afford police services.

    If a human life can be lost or the chance of physical suffering is high, let it be socialized and government-run.

    All other things, entertainment, expensive restaurants, designer clothes, sex clubs, etc., can be at the pure whim of capitalism.

    No one ever died because they couldn't see the latest episode of Glee.
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post

    However, what REALLY rankles is how the city is proposing a so-called "skin tax" on the business, should it become, in fact, a topless bar. The idea behind this tax is that the monies collected will be filtered to sexual assault victim organizations.
    However noble the intent of this idea, it would take an act of the Legislature to create such a tax. The city can set property tax rates, water rates, sewer rates, garbage rates, but special taxes (like entry fees to certain places, such as river boats) have to come from our 150 friends and neighbors in Indianapolis. And those folks rarely go jumping for joy over new taxes.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    When principles run counter to the First Amendment, you are ****** right I want them to set them aside.
    There's nothing in the First Amendment about stripping.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by LuciusBeebe View Post
    There's nothing in the First Amendment about stripping.
    So you think that dancing or stripping ISN'T a form of personal expression?

    I guess it's okay that we have all our computers seized because the First Amendment doesn't include anything about the Internet, either.
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    So you think that dancing or stripping ISN'T a form of personal expression?
    Fine, tell me what Candy is SAYING when she goes up on the stage and spins on a pole, then waits for men to put money in her underpants.
    Last edited by LuciusBeebe; 08-26-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by LuciusBeebe View Post
    Fine, tell me what Candy is SAYING when she goes up on the stage and spins on a pole, then waits for men to put money in her underpants.
    So "Fifty Shades of Grey" isn't a form of protected expression, either, because it's pornographic? Equus and Hair should be banned as well?

    The main reason exotic dancing is still legal is because Federal courts HAVE ruled it as a form of expression that should be protected. Albeit, most courts have ruled so holding their noses, but regardless...

    As to Candy's pole dancing, ever watch interpretive dance? Neither lends itself to an easy understanding of content, but one could argue Candy's jiggling is a commentary on the female role in society or other mumbo jumbo ******** like that.
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  13. #13

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by LuciusBeebe View Post
    Fine, tell me what Candy is SAYING when she goes up on the stage and spins on a pole, then waits for men to put money in her underpants.
    I would equate stripping with burning the American flag. If you want to know what either is "saying" you have to use your mind. obviously burning the flag is about being upset with the government, stripping could be, showing how men objectify the female body, it could be showing how the American people have become a bunch of prudes, it could be something as simple as, I can make a whole lot of money without a degree, or better yet, I can use my body to get a degree because my parents are not 1% ers!
    coming to you live from police state "Kville"

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by blue adept View Post
    I would equate stripping with burning the American flag. If you want to know what either is "saying" you have to use your mind. obviously burning the flag is about being upset with the government, stripping could be, showing how men objectify the female body, it could be showing how the American people have become a bunch of prudes, it could be something as simple as, I can make a whole lot of money without a degree, or better yet, I can use my body to get a degree because my parents are not 1% ers!
    It absolutely is often good money for the dancers.

    One I spoke to in Michigan about fifteen years ago told me she'd been dancing for only a few years and had already saved enough to pay cash for a house.

    Anti-porn crusaders claim the sex industry is exploitative of women. I won't argue forced prostitution is wrong, but who is the one getting exploited in most strip clubs? The girls on stage or in the lounges grinding against their horny customers, or the often socially-inept men forking over $200-300 for a night of pretend female attention?
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  15. #15

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    Anti-porn crusaders claim the sex industry is exploitative of women. I won't argue forced prostitution is wrong, but who is the one getting exploited in most strip clubs? The girls on stage or in the lounges grinding against their horny customers, or the often socially-inept men forking over $200-300 for a night of pretend female attention?
    I can guarantee you that if this place does open, there won't be a lot of grinding (if any at all). Maybe mikem has something to add on this (or perhaps he would care not to add anything), but it sure sounds like our city council had their ducks in a row concerning "burlesque clubs". I've seen an awful lot of regulations that are on the books cited, something that doesn't exist if this weren't expected at some point in time. Maybe they were in response to an earlier "threat", maybe not - I'd be curious when set language was added to the zoning rules.

    This bike path excuse from the city attorney has the feel of somebody putting up token resistance, so that when called out on it later the city can say "see, we tried to fight it!" And besides, wouldn't a bike path by the strip club be a GOOD thing? You could bicycle there rather than drive, and though drunk biking is hardly safe, it is better than drunk driving.

  16. #16

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigB View Post
    I can guarantee you that if this place does open, there won't be a lot of grinding (if any at all). Maybe mikem has something to add on this (or perhaps he would care not to add anything), but it sure sounds like our city council had their ducks in a row concerning "burlesque clubs". I've seen an awful lot of regulations that are on the books cited, something that doesn't exist if this weren't expected at some point in time. Maybe they were in response to an earlier "threat", maybe not - I'd be curious when set language was added to the zoning rules.

    This bike path excuse from the city attorney has the feel of somebody putting up token resistance, so that when called out on it later the city can say "see, we tried to fight it!" And besides, wouldn't a bike path by the strip club be a GOOD thing? You could bicycle there rather than drive, and though drunk biking is hardly safe, it is better than drunk driving.
    Campaigning against strip clubs and prostitution is just like campaigning against drugs and gambling. While the latter may not be 100% victimless vices (family members can suffer if a loved one is in the throes of addiction or if the husband or wife is gambling away rent money), they are mostly harmless vices, with no direct impact on anyone else apart from the user or dancer/prostitute and her client. Of course, ANYTHING taken to excess can harm the individual (for example, while legal, too much alcohol is just as damaging, if not more so, than too much cocaine), but why are some vices considered so bad they must be rendered totally illegal?

    A prudish sense of morality or frankly, the unconstitutional application of Biblical proscriptions against sexual sins is the only thing that differentiates a strip club from any other bar.

    I look at how much financial success casinos, marijuana sales and prostitution generate and think of what a waste of potentially taxable income they generate. Probably more than enough to offset the lack of taxes paid by churches (the ones most directly responsible for the illegality of the former).
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  17. #17

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    As for full disclosure: I am married with children and will likely never even visit the place, should it become an actual strip club.

    This is not because of any desire to set myself as an example for my kids, nor to any sense of duty to my wife, but mostly because having a family pretty much kills any disposable income needed to enjoy such an establishment.

    Regardless, I would love to see something that would help pull outside dollars back into Angola and Steuben County. I cannot help but think that in addition to the club itself, ancillary businesses like restaurants, gas stations and hotels could see an upswing, especially if the strip club is open year round.

    We need something to build tourism besides three months of good weather on the lakes.

    It's all well and good for the churchies to clutch their pearls and bemoan the coarsening of the culture. However, the rest of us have to eat, too.
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  18. #18

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    Regardless, I would love to see something that would help pull outside dollars back into Angola and Steuben County. I cannot help but think that in addition to the club itself, ancillary businesses like restaurants, gas stations and hotels could see an upswing, especially if the strip club is open year round.
    I think you greatly overestimate the secondary effect that a strip club would have on nearby businesses. Outside of whatever tax dollars it generates itself, the affect on other businesses would be an almost imperceptible blip.

  19. #19

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigB View Post
    I think you greatly overestimate the secondary effect that a strip club would have on nearby businesses. Outside of whatever tax dollars it generates itself, the affect on other businesses would be an almost imperceptible blip.
    If we had an attraction that pulled in tourists year round, those "imperceptible blips" would add up.

    The more popular the place, the greater the number of clientele. Why wouldn't we get people from as far north as Coldwater or as far west as Middlebury or as far east as Bryan or as far south as Auburn?

    Anyone can make a restaurant, and considering all the ones that have folded in the past decade, clearly anyone wanting to turn the old 101 building into a success has to do something different.

    And come to think of it, didn't that place used to host male dancers occasionally? So it's not like there isn't a precedent.
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  20. #20

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    Default Re: Local "Skin Tax" on the Old 101 Building

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    And come to think of it, didn't that place used to host male dancers occasionally? So it's not like there isn't a precedent.
    There's been all kinds of wet t-shirt contests and such all over around here too. I think they might have to get a special stamp or license from Excise.....Then there's the after hours stuff, er, years ago anyway...Gotta go to Windsor to see that.
    For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it. - Patrick Henry

    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
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