Republican Convention events

[Mr Douglas]

Suffice it to say, Evil hates Libertarianism and there's nothing that can be said to make him change his mind. Just the way it is. Post accordingly.

I considered writing some kind of book report with links and such in rebuttal, BUT.....
The big thing that cheeses me off is the tactic of equating variable'x', for instance the JBS, with variable 'y' the KKK, to drive home a false point ....First of all, we're not talking about 'y', we're talking about 'x'. 'x' isn't racist, 'y' IS. It poisons other readers perception of 'x' without any facts.

THEN,.....Well, isn't there a parable about a baby and some bath water? We can all agree Hitler and Nazi Germany sucked, and nobody with a shred of humanity would like or condone what they did....So why are our ("What would we do without government?") highways designed after the Autobahn? Why did we race Russia to Berlin to scarf up all the Nazi scientists like the venerated Werner VonBraun? WHY would our military adopt their mechanized Blitzkrieg, and lately,' preemptive' war tactics? Why would we EVER have built weapons that were pioneered by Nazi scientist and engineers? I mean, they're bad people! Name one weapon we didn't copy and improve for the purpose of mass killing. From the first assault rifles to wire guided bombs, the ballistic missle, cruise missles, the flying wing design that is our B1 bomber...You name it. Anybody that was a WW2 buff that ever got close to an American M60 would say "Wow! This thing looks an awful lot like an MG42!"....No 'stool'? Really?... Then there's quotable quotes from Hitler. He doesn't have to fit anyone's ideology to be right about SOME things....Here's my favorite-
"What fortune it is for governments that people don't think.".....That's beautiful! His other ideas be 'dog-goned', he's right about THAT!
Blue posted a 'parable' from a movie regarding us becoming our enemies a week or so ago...Well, we did (so certainly, you can get a little carried away), but- right down to the helmets we use now because that shape works the best. You don't have to 100% agree with someone or something to see what is 'right' in their ways, or what they do that 'works'. You do have to be honest with yourself though. 'Nice' people with whom one agrees politically or otherwise don't necessarily hold ruling interest on what is true, or what works.

[evilkumquat]

I considered writing some kind of book report with links and such in rebuttal, BUT.....
The big thing that cheeses me off is the tactic of equating variable'x', for instance the JBS, with variable 'y' the KKK, to drive home a false point ....First of all, we're not talking about 'y', we're talking about 'x'. 'x' isn't racist, 'y' IS. It poisons other readers perception of 'x' without any facts.

THEN,.....Well, isn't there a parable about a baby and some bath water? We can all agree Hitler and Nazi Germany sucked, and nobody with a shred of humanity would like or condone what they did....So why are our ("What would we do without government?") highways designed after the Autobahn? Why did we race Russia to Berlin to scarf up all the Nazi scientists like the venerated Werner VonBraun? WHY would our military adopt their mechanized Blitzkrieg, and lately,' preemptive' war tactics? Why would we EVER have built weapons that were pioneered by Nazi scientist and engineers? I mean, they're bad people! Name one weapon we didn't copy and improve for the purpose of mass killing. From the first assault rifles to wire guided bombs, the ballistic missle, cruise missles, the flying wing design that is our B1 bomber...You name it. Anybody that was a WW2 buff that ever got close to an American M60 would say "Wow! This thing looks an awful lot like an MG42!"....No 'stool'? Really?... Then there's quotable quotes from Hitler. He doesn't have to fit anyone's ideology to be right about SOME things....Here's my favorite-
"What fortune it is for governments that people don't think.".....That's beautiful! His other ideas be 'dog-goned', he's right about THAT!
Blue posted a 'parable' from a movie regarding us becoming our enemies a week or so ago...Well, we did (so certainly, you can get a little carried away), but- right down to the helmets we use now because that shape works the best. You don't have to 100% agree with someone or something to see what is 'right' in their ways, or what they do that 'works'. You do have to be honest with yourself though. 'Nice' people with whom one agrees politically or otherwise don't necessarily hold ruling interest on what is true, or what works.

Whether or not the Birchers said things with which you agree, just like the Nazis (you brought 'em up, not me), they were on the WRONG side of history. The Birchers fought against the Civil Rights Act. They also helped perpetuate that insane anti-Communist crusade that infected our country over the last sixty years, causing millions of deaths and untold misery through the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the McCarthy witch hunts, economic sanctions, South American death squads, etc.

[Mr Douglas]

Whether or not the Birchers said things with which you agree, just like the Nazis (you brought 'em up, not me), they were on the WRONG side of history. The Birchers fought against the Civil Rights Act. They also helped perpetuate that insane anti-Communist crusade that infected our country over the last sixty years, causing millions of deaths and untold misery through the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the McCarthy witch hunts, economic sanctions, South American death squads, etc.

The Civil Rights Act says- hey...hEY...HAYYY!...... Obey the Bill of Rights, ASUALS!!....It's redundant.

[evilkumquat]

The Civil Rights Act says- hey...hEY...HAYYY!...... Obey the Bill of Rights, ASUALS!!....It's redundant.

You know it took FOUR separate Amendments to the Constitution to afford blacks civil rights, and each necessary because "states rights" were being used to oppress and disenfranchise them?

First you have the 13th, to end slavery. That doesn't need any explanation.

The 14th, giving former slaves citizenship, because the ex-slave states were preventing blacks from having rights by saying they weren't citizens, even though the majority of the freed slaves were born on US soil.

The 15th, giving blacks the right to vote (only males, unfortunately- women of both races wouldn't get that right until the 19th) because the ex-slave states were blatantly discriminating on the basis of race and former slave status.

The 24th, outlawing poll taxes, which was another method used by the South to disenfranchise blacks.

Now today, we have Republicans pushing voter ID laws and massive purge lists (not to mention restricting voting hours in Ohio). So redundant as it may be to keep driving home the point that everyone in the country deserves equal protection under the law, certain groups STILL try and deny minorities their piece of the American pie.

[Copycatted]

Maybe he didn't exactly lie the second time[but he sure did the first] however, the plant was already closing, and the president couldn't have stopped it anyway. I see no broken promise!

That "no broken promise" rather struck a cord with me blue. I yet stand my ground that it was no broken promise of the President for we getting a brand new Fort Wayne V.A. Hospital because of then entered politics right after the WHO announcement when the former Congressman (Souder) publicly pipped up saying we didn't have the nerve to ask for that.

I do recall the night of Mitts acceptance of him saying he was gonna beef up mental health care and after all these years rumor is that's the way the Fort Wayne V.A. hospital is swinging. It was also brought to my attention in the night of his acceptance that Veterans were never once mentioned.

[blue adept]

That "no broken promise" rather struck a cord with me blue. I yet stand my ground that it was no broken promise of the President for we getting a brand new Fort Wayne V.A. Hospital because of then entered politics right after the WHO announcement when the former Congressman (Souder) publicly pipped up saying we didn't have the nerve to ask for that.

I do recall the night of Mitts acceptance of him saying he was gonna beef up mental health care and after all these years rumor is that's the way the Fort Wayne V.A. hospital is swinging. It was also brought to my attention in the night of his acceptance that Veterans were never once mentioned.

I am not saying that Obama hasn't lied, what I am saying is none of our future candidates are telling the truth about themselves or the other side. As for not mentioning the military, I agree, not enough is being done for the men and women of this country that have served in the military, it is a shame. I will vote for Obama, if only to keep the GOP from taking away women's rights.

[HomeyG]

You know it took FOUR separate Amendments to the Constitution to afford blacks civil rights, and each necessary because "states rights" were being used to oppress and disenfranchise them?

First you have the 13th, to end slavery. That doesn't need any explanation.

The 14th, giving former slaves citizenship, because the ex-slave states were preventing blacks from having rights by saying they weren't citizens, even though the majority of the freed slaves were born on US soil.

The 15th, giving blacks the right to vote (only males, unfortunately- women of both races wouldn't get that right until the 19th) because the ex-slave states were blatantly discriminating on the basis of race and former slave status.

The 24th, outlawing poll taxes, which was another method used by the South to disenfranchise blacks.

Now today, we have Republicans pushing voter ID laws and massive purge lists (not to mention restricting voting hours in Ohio). So redundant as it may be to keep driving home the point that everyone in the country deserves equal protection under the law, certain groups STILL try and deny minorities their piece of the American pie.

How is voter ID and purging voter lists denying equal protection under the law? I could understand that if only minorities had to produce an ID or only minorities would be purged from voter lists but the program is being applied equally without regard to race.

[edeevee]

How is voter ID and purging voter lists denying equal protection under the law? I could understand that if only minorities had to produce an ID or only minorities would be purged from voter lists but the program is being applied equally without regard to race.

Purging names off of voter lists this close to an election doesn't leave much time to correct mistakes. It increases the chance that a true citizen will go to the polls and be told they are not eligible to vote. In Florida, 60% of those identified as possible non-citizens have hispanic surnames - thus the denying unequal protection claim. As for requiring photo IDs this most often affects the poor, who don't have cars so don't have driver's licenses and may find it difficult to get to agencies where those IDs are produced. How many towns and cities in Indiana have public transportation to take them where they need to go? Not many. In Kendallville, it would involve making an appointment 48 hours in advance, paying the $6 round trip fare, and waiting up to an hour for the van to come back to pick you up. Even in Fort Wayne, where they have a bus system, only one of the BMV branches is on a route - and it's only on ONE route, so it will cost at least two fares to get there if you don't live along Coldwater Road. That's $2.50 each way and a lot of time and hassle because now you have to prove who you say you are when just showing up to vote used to be your RIGHT.

[HomeyG]

Purging names off of voter lists this close to an election doesn't leave much time to correct mistakes. It increases the chance that a true citizen will go to the polls and be told they are not eligible to vote. In Florida, 60% of those identified as possible non-citizens have hispanic surnames - thus the denying unequal protection claim. As for requiring photo IDs this most often affects the poor, who don't have cars so don't have driver's licenses and may find it difficult to get to agencies where those IDs are produced. How many towns and cities in Indiana have public transportation to take them where they need to go? Not many. In Kendallville, it would involve making an appointment 48 hours in advance, paying the $6 round trip fare, and waiting up to an hour for the van to come back to pick you up. Even in Fort Wayne, where they have a bus system, only one of the BMV branches is on a route - and it's only on ONE route, so it will cost at least two fares to get there if you don't live along Coldwater Road. That's $2.50 each way and a lot of time and hassle because now you have to prove who you say you are when just showing up to vote used to be your RIGHT.

As far as your comment about purging voters if they are permitted, and I think they are, to cast provisional ballot this should give them sufficient time to establish their right to vote. As far as voter ID I find it extremely hard to swallow that there are a large number of individuals that do not have some form of picture ID as there are too many things that require individuals to show an ID. We seem to find ways to provide transportation for voters so that they may vote it doesn't seem unreasonable to think they could also provide transportation to get a pictured ID. Looking at the 2008 Senatorial race in Minnesota attest to the fact the voter fraud can and does exist. Franken was declared winner by a mere 312 votes where 1099 felons have been identified as illegally voting. The last count that I could find there has been 171 convictions and another 66 awaiting trial with more being investigated. I wonder what the outcry from the Democrats would have been if Coleman had won by 312 votes.

[evilkumquat]

How is voter ID and purging voter lists denying equal protection under the law? I could understand that if only minorities had to produce an ID or only minorities would be purged from voter lists but the program is being applied equally without regard to race.

Homey, for crying out loud. Seriously.

When you create a law to fix a problem that DOESN'T EXIST (look up actual statistics for crimes that a voter ID law would prevent- you could get struck by lightning a hundred times over by those odds) and the law overwhelmingly impacts one minority group over another, that program is denying equal protection under the law.

Seriously. Look at the ********* statistics: one study shows since the hundreds of millions of votes cast since 2000, there were just over two thousand cases of alleged fraud and only TEN were due to impersonating another voter. TEN. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. The square root of 100. How many piddies at the end of your feet.

But staggeringly enough, projections show voter ID laws can significantly impact how many people will be affected. In Pennsylvania, almost a TENTH of the available voters don't have the required ID needed to vote. That's almost 750,000 people. THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION PEOPLE are effectively disenfranchised because of "concerns" that ten people within the last twelve years impersonated a voter.

Even if those projected figures in Pennsylvania are off by a factor of a hundred, that's STILL 7,500 people, or 75,000% the amount of people committing voter impersonation NATIONWIDE for TWELVE YEARS.

Yes, these laws disenfranchise blacks, whites, Republicans and Democrats, but the majority affected are those more likely to vote Democrat. Why else would it be 100% Republican governors and legislators pushing for these laws nationwide, to fix a problem that doesn't exist?

[evilkumquat]

As far as your comment about purging voters if they are permitted, and I think they are, to cast provisional ballot this should give them sufficient time to establish their right to vote. As far as voter ID I find it extremely hard to swallow that there are a large number of individuals that do not have some form of picture ID as there are too many things that require individuals to show an ID. We seem to find ways to provide transportation for voters so that they may vote it doesn't seem unreasonable to think they could also provide transportation to get a pictured ID. Looking at the 2008 Senatorial race in Minnesota attest to the fact the voter fraud can and does exist. Franken was declared winner by a mere 312 votes where 1099 felons have been identified as illegally voting. The last count that I could find there has been 171 convictions and another 66 awaiting trial with more being investigated. I wonder what the outcry from the Democrats would have been if Coleman had won by 312 votes.

And how exactly would a Voter ID law have prevented the felons from voting?

See, Republicans claim the need for Voter ID laws to prevent fraud, but they so conveniently fail to mention that 99.999999999999% of election fraud would not be prevented by showing ID at the polls.

[LuciusBeebe]

Homey, for crying out loud. Seriously.

When you create a law.... and the law overwhelmingly impacts one minority group over another, that program is denying equal protection under the law.

This is exactly correct. If you pass a law that you apply equally to all races, but it effects one race more than the other, you have created a law that is not actually equal.

See, Republicans claim the need for Voter ID laws to prevent fraud, but they so conveniently fail to mention that 99.999999999999% of election fraud would not be prevented by showing ID at the polls.

Meanwhile, when the CEO of the company that MAKES the voting machines PROMISES THE STATE OF OHIO TO BUSH, its no big deal. In fact, its not any deal. Its more paranoid theories from the Left.

[HomeyG]

And how exactly would a Voter ID law have prevented the felons from voting?

See, Republicans claim the need for Voter ID laws to prevent fraud, but they so conveniently fail to mention that 99.999999999999% of election fraud would not be prevented by showing ID at the polls.

By combining the purging of felons from the voting records with the requirement to show a valid ID I suspect those 1099 felons would not have voted.

[evilkumquat]

By combining the purging of felons from the voting records with the requirement to show a valid ID I suspect those 1099 felons would not have voted.

Since you sympathize with the Republican Party, I'm sure it's no concern to you that Democrats are overwhelmingly affected by these laws.

[HomeyG]

Since you sympathize with the Republican Party, I'm sure it's no concern to you that Democrats are overwhelmingly affected by these laws.

I'm sure the Democrats are only worried about losing votes, even the illegal ones.

[LuciusBeebe]

So tell me, Homey, if voter fraud is not really a problem, as the data shows...

...why are Republicans putting so much effort into requiring ID's?

[armyda]

To get an ID in Indiana:

"If you are applying for a new driver's license, permit, or identification card you must present original versions or certified copies of the following documents:

• One document proving your identity; and
• One document proving your Social Security number; and
• One document proving your lawful status in the United States; and
• Two documents proving your Indiana residency."

Document list:
http://www.in.gov/bmv/files/SecureID_Documents_List.pdf

Very simple: Right

[blue adept]

To get an ID in Indiana:

"If you are applying for a new driver's license, permit, or identification card you must present original versions or certified copies of the following documents:

• One document proving your identity; and
• One document proving your Social Security number; and
• One document proving your lawful status in the United States; and
• Two documents proving your Indiana residency."

Document list:
http://www.in.gov/bmv/files/SecureID_Documents_List.pdf

Very simple: Right

Sounds a whole lot like "your papers please" I thought this was America?

[Mr Douglas]

They just threw away 1/3 of their party vote. They alienated ALL the young people, and anyone who can think objectively. 70% of the military campaign contributions were NOT to Romney....Thet must know something's going to happen, and WANT to lose. Then, at least, they can blame everything on someone else.

[HoosierHelen]

They just threw away 1/3 of their party vote. They alienated ALL the young people, and anyone who can think objectively. 70% of the military campaign contributions were NOT to Romney....Thet must know something's going to happen, and WANT to lose. Then, at least, they can blame everything on someone else.

I'm trying to follow your thoughts here Mr. D. Are you suggesting that all the young people and the military people are going to vote against Romney because you expect they want to loose and blame someone other than themselves? I'm confused with your posting?