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Thread: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

  1. #1

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    Default Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    Whatever happened to those days? Lately it feels like scores of people are suffering from a memory disorder -- they can't recall anything that happened four or more years ago.

    Some of the folks I know who are clamoring the loudest for Romney/Ryan are the very ones who were hurt the most by the schemes this duo wants to bring back. Take the the guy I know who managed to hang onto his job at the auto components factory. Four years ago his company was shutting down every other week and Mitt Romney wanted to let his whole industry fail.

    Or take the lady I know whose husband lost his management job of almost 20 years in the recession. Four years ago he was unemployed. Being an older guy, it took him a while to find a job. Thank goodness he had extended unemployment benefits -- but he wouldn't have if Paul Ryan had his way. Ryan voted against extensions in November of 2010 when unemployment rates in Indiana were still almost 10%.

    Or take the guys I know who were heavily invested in the housing industry, one of them lost his house, the other lost his house, his job, his car and his wife too. Four years ago he would have been homeless if family hadn't taken him in. Romney thought the best thing for the housing market was to let all those foreclosures happpen so that investors could buy them up cheap and then rent them out. The ideal of owning a home has been part of our American dream since the days of the founding fathers. Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, all of them knew the importance of home ownership ... and you do too. Which would you rather live on -- a block where 90% of your neighbors were owners -- or renters? BTW, that guy? He's working again, full time ... and renting.

    Or take my aunt who was all set to retire -- until the stock market took a dump and she lost half of her nest egg. She's 69 years old, suffers from severe rheumatoid arthritis and is still humpin' it every day trying to gain her hard earned money back. Maybe if she hadn't freaked out when Obama was elected, and completely withdrew from the markets, she would have met her goal by now. Under his administration the Stock Market is almost at an all time high.

    And yet each of these voters is actively -and loudly- supporting Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. Try to remind them that Romney/Ryan's plans are really just the same old deregulate, untax, trickle down, supply side, rising tide, horse and sparrow slight of hand that screwed them four years ago, and eight years before that, and twenty years before that, and sixty years before that, and thirty years before that -- and they just cram their fingers in their ears and scream lalalalala, I can't hear you!

    These schemes have NEVER worked. They may raise revenue briefly but they don't do squat for the middle class and we NEED the middle class to buy the stuff the "job creators" want to sell us. When income is unfairly concentrated at the top there is not enough demand for goods, the economy falters and, well ... if you're not one of the recently-memory-challenged you know what happens next.

    I wish someone would ask ME if I'm better off now than I was four years ago because I remember. I remember what it was like to have a husband whose commissions had dried up, a son who was unemployed and uninsurable, a 30+% loss in my investments that made me wonder if I was going to be able to keep my daughter in college. I remember the day my son asked what we would do if the depression really hit. We talked about doing with less, everyone moving in together, starting a garden, raising chickens.

    Things aren't hunky-dory yet -- but they're better. My husband is selling stuff again. My son is working. And insured. My daughter finished school and just closed a software sale for her company on a 24 million dollar project.

    I'd rather give my vote to the guy who started turning things around than the guys who want to _turn around_ and try to pull the same tattered wool over our eyes again. I know I'm preaching to some of you who are already in the choir but, for the rest of you, please, take your fingers out of your ears and take a moment to remember what it was REALLY like four years ago. You barely survived it. Are you sure you'll be so "lucky" next time?
    Last edited by edeevee; 10-11-2012 at 08:30 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    Quote Originally Posted by edeevee View Post
    Whatever happened to those days? Lately it feels like scores of people are suffering from a memory disorder -- they can't recall anything that happened four or more years ago.

    Some of the folks I know who are clamoring the loudest for Romney/Ryan are the very ones who were hurt the most by the schemes this duo wants to bring back. Take the the guy I know who managed to hang onto his job at the auto components factory. Four years ago his company was shutting down every other week and Mitt Romney wanted to let his whole industry fail.

    Or take the lady I know whose husband lost his management job of almost 20 years in the recession. Four years ago he was unemployed. Being an older guy, it took him a while to find a job. Thank goodness he had extended unemployment benefits -- but he wouldn't have if Paul Ryan had his way. Ryan voted against extensions in November of 2010 when unemployment rates in Indiana were still almost 10%.

    Or take the guys I know who were heavily invested in the housing industry, one of them lost his house, the other lost his house, his job, his car and his wife too. Four years ago he would have been homeless if family hadn't taken him in. Romney thought the best thing for the housing market was to let all those foreclosures happpen so that investors could buy them up cheap and then rent them out. The ideal of owning a home has been part of our American dream since the days of the founding fathers. Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, all of them knew the importance of home ownership ... and you do too. Which would you rather live on -- a block where 90% of your neighbors were owners -- or renters? BTW, that guy? He's working again, full time ... and renting.

    Or take my aunt who was all set to retire -- until the stock market took a dump and she lost half of her nest egg. She's 69 years old, suffers from severe rheumatoid arthritis and is still humpin' it every day trying to gain her hard earned money back. Maybe if she hadn't freaked out when Obama was elected, and completely withdrew from the markets, she would have met her goal by now. Under his administration the Stock Market is almost at an all time high.

    And yet each of these voters is actively -and loudly- supporting Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. Try to remind them that Romney/Ryan's plans are really just the same old deregulate, untax, trickle down, supply side, rising tide, horse and sparrow slight of hand that screwed them four years ago, and eight years before that, and twenty years before that, and sixty years before that, and thirty years before that -- and they just cram their fingers in their ears and scream lalalalala, I can't hear you!

    These schemes have NEVER worked. They may raise revenue briefly but they don't do squat for the middle class and we NEED the middle class to buy the stuff the "job creators" want to sell us. When income is unfairly concentrated at the top there is not enough demand for goods, the economy falters and, well ... if you're not one of the recently-memory-challenged you know what happens next.

    I wish someone would ask ME if I'm better off now than I was four years ago because I remember. I remember what it was like to have a husband whose commissions had dried up, a son who was unemployed and uninsurable, a 30+% loss in my investments that made me wonder if I was going to be able to keep my daughter in college. I remember the day my son asked what we would do if the depression really hit. We talked about doing with less, everyone moving in together, starting a garden, raising chickens.

    Things aren't hunky-dory yet -- but they're better. My husband is selling stuff again. My son is working. And insured. My daughter finished school and just closed a software sale for her company on a 24 million dollar project.

    I'd rather give my vote to the guy who started turning things around than the guys who want to _turn around_ and try to pull the same tattered wool over our eyes again. I know I'm preaching to some of you who are already in the choir but, for the rest of you, please, take your fingers out of your ears and take a moment to remember what it was REALLY like four years ago. You barely survived it. Are you sure you'll be so "lucky" next time?
    Memory is often the first thing to go!
    Open your eyes...............
    Don't go another day through life blindly
    !

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    Very nicely put, Edeevee.

    Eight years ago, my wife and I were house hunting. Luckily, we didn't buy anything at the time, because when the economy tanked my industry was one of the worst ones hit, cutting my income in half. Now, after almost four years of Obama, my office is having its best year in six years. My family is far from recovered, but at least a light at the end of the tunnel is approaching. If Romney wins, that light will transform into an oncoming train.

    Republicans are incredibly successful when it comes to convincing people to vote against their own self-interests.

    Health care reform, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps/SNAPS- all of us are protected by this safety net when needed. Yet Romney/Ryan have both either voted to or expressed an interest to cut back on every one of these things.

    What have Romney/Ryan NOT said they'd cut back? Those massive tax breaks given to the wealthy during the Bush years, which are easily the biggest reason we are having the financial problems right now.
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    Quote Originally Posted by edeevee View Post
    Whatever happened to those days? Lately it feels like scores of people are suffering from a memory disorder -- they can't recall anything that happened four or more years ago.

    Some of the folks I know who are clamoring the loudest for Romney/Ryan are the very ones who were hurt the most by the schemes this duo wants to bring back. Take the the guy I know who managed to hang onto his job at the auto components factory. Four years ago his company was shutting down every other week and Mitt Romney wanted to let his whole industry fail.

    Or take the lady I know whose husband lost his management job of almost 20 years in the recession. Four years ago he was unemployed. Being an older guy, it took him a while to find a job. Thank goodness he had extended unemployment benefits -- but he wouldn't have if Paul Ryan had his way. Ryan voted against extensions in November of 2010 when unemployment rates in Indiana were still almost 10%.

    Or take the guys I know who were heavily invested in the housing industry, one of them lost his house, the other lost his house, his job, his car and his wife too. Four years ago he would have been homeless if family hadn't taken him in. Romney thought the best thing for the housing market was to let all those foreclosures happpen so that investors could buy them up cheap and then rent them out. The ideal of owning a home has been part of our American dream since the days of the founding fathers. Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, all of them knew the importance of home ownership ... and you do too. Which would you rather live on -- a block where 90% of your neighbors were owners -- or renters? BTW, that guy? He's working again, full time ... and renting.

    Or take my aunt who was all set to retire -- until the stock market took a dump and she lost half of her nest egg. She's 69 years old, suffers from severe rheumatoid arthritis and is still humpin' it every day trying to gain her hard earned money back. Maybe if she hadn't freaked out when Obama was elected, and completely withdrew from the markets, she would have met her goal by now. Under his administration the Stock Market is almost at an all time high.

    And yet each of these voters is actively -and loudly- supporting Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. Try to remind them that Romney/Ryan's plans are really just the same old deregulate, untax, trickle down, supply side, rising tide, horse and sparrow slight of hand that screwed them four years ago, and eight years before that, and twenty years before that, and sixty years before that, and thirty years before that -- and they just cram their fingers in their ears and scream lalalalala, I can't hear you!

    These schemes have NEVER worked. They may raise revenue briefly but they don't do squat for the middle class and we NEED the middle class to buy the stuff the "job creators" want to sell us. When income is unfairly concentrated at the top there is not enough demand for goods, the economy falters and, well ... if you're not one of the recently-memory-challenged you know what happens next.

    I wish someone would ask ME if I'm better off now than I was four years ago because I remember. I remember what it was like to have a husband whose commissions had dried up, a son who was unemployed and uninsurable, a 30+% loss in my investments that made me wonder if I was going to be able to keep my daughter in college. I remember the day my son asked what we would do if the depression really hit. We talked about doing with less, everyone moving in together, starting a garden, raising chickens.

    Things aren't hunky-dory yet -- but they're better. My husband is selling stuff again. My son is working. And insured. My daughter finished school and just closed a software sale for her company on a 24 million dollar project.

    I'd rather give my vote to the guy who started turning things around than the guys who want to _turn around_ and try to pull the same tattered wool over our eyes again. I know I'm preaching to some of you who are already in the choir but, for the rest of you, please, take your fingers out of your ears and take a moment to remember what it was REALLY like four years ago. You barely survived it. Are you sure you'll be so "lucky" next time?
    Incredibly well said. Thank you for putting the time and effort into posting this for us. It really boils down to this and you really brought it home.
    Mitch McConnell: “The President’s more than willing to negotiate with Iranians, I don’t know why he wouldn’t be willing to negotiate with us.”

    Jon Stewart: “If it turns out that President Barack Obama can make a deal with the most intransigent, hard-lined, unreasonable totalitarian mullahs in the world, but not the Republicans, maybe he’s not the problem.”

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    d
    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    Very nicely put, Edeevee.

    Eight years ago, my wife and I were house hunting. Luckily, we didn't buy anything at the time, because when the economy tanked my industry was one of the worst ones hit, cutting my income in half. Now, after almost four years of Obama, my office is having its best year in six years. My family is far from recovered, but at least a light at the end of the tunnel is approaching. If Romney wins, that light will transform into an oncoming train.

    Republicans are incredibly successful when it comes to convincing people to vote against their own self-interests.

    Health care reform, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps/SNAPS- all of us are protected by this safety net when needed. Yet Romney/Ryan have both either voted to or expressed an interest to cut back on every one of these things.

    What have Romney/Ryan NOT said they'd cut back? Those massive tax breaks given to the wealthy during the Bush years, which are easily the biggest reason we are having the financial problems right now.
    Thanks. Best of luck recovering the rest of the way and, yeah, I agree with you.

    The tax cuts for the rich are the ONLY thing that Romney/Ryan say is off the table. Not food stamps or housing assistance or Medicaid - you know - stuff that many people are forced to rely on to survive. Nope. None of that is worth borrowing money from China. And, actually, I kind of agree. As a country we need to live within our means. If that means people who need a hand have to eat from a list of nutritious and affordable but not so instant-to-prepare foods, or live somewhere safe and warm but not exactly spacious or attractive, or be sent away from emergency rooms when their maladies could be successfully and treated at a clinic ... then so be it. I'm okay with assistance being just enough to assist. It might make people who can do more for themselves yearn and strive for more, and it could save us a lot of money too.

    Yearning and striving are an important part of our economy. Why does the middle class buy half the crap that we do? It's not because we NEED the latest Android or iPhone. It's because we want it and we're willing to work for the money to get it. It's also why tax breaks for the middle class during times of slow growth make sense. Let a family who makes $50,000 a year keep an extra 3% of their take home pay and they'll buy that Android, pay the extra for the data plan, and maybe have enough left over to get their car tuned up, go to dinner and a movie and buy a pair of jeans at Kohls. Sadly, that won't mean an increase in manufacturing jobs (directly, anyway) because the Samsung Galaxy S is made in Korea and most Levi's are made in China or Mexico but it helps employ the sales guy at your local Verizon store, the mechanic, the waiter, the kid who sells you popcorn, and the mom who works the cash register at Kohls. In other words, people in your own community.

    Give a millionaire an extra 3% and what are they going to do with it? If you are Ann Romney you might buy another $2000 Oscar De La Renta dress - but how many of those do you need? And does anywhere in northeast Indiana even sell Oscar's frocks? The super rich are SATIATED. They have everything they could ever yearn for. Except even more money. And before someone tries to tell me that Richie Rich's dad (or Mitt Romney) is going to use that $300,000 (PER MILLION) tax break to invest in jobs they'll have to tell me first how many jobs Mitt's $120 million PLUS that's sitting in offshore accounts is creating.

    It's all about balance. The poor should not be able to live like the middle class at our expense. But the super rich should not be able to live the way they do either -- not if that is ALSO at our expense. I think Obama gets that. He's offered $3 in spending cuts for every $1 in increased revenue -- but that's not good enough for Romney or Ryan. They want to have their cake ... and eat yours too.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    After thinking about what you have written I really feel you should try to get this some attention. Send to Huffington Post or to the Democratic Party. These are the stories that need to be delivered to the public. Your story is exactly what needs to be brought across about the differences between Republican Trickle down ( by the way does anyone else when they hear or see that think, Oh we get the scraps from the table") and the Democratic Fair share middle out recovery.
    Mitch McConnell: “The President’s more than willing to negotiate with Iranians, I don’t know why he wouldn’t be willing to negotiate with us.”

    Jon Stewart: “If it turns out that President Barack Obama can make a deal with the most intransigent, hard-lined, unreasonable totalitarian mullahs in the world, but not the Republicans, maybe he’s not the problem.”

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    Quote Originally Posted by sturmtiger View Post
    After thinking about what you have written I really feel you should try to get this some attention. Send to Huffington Post or to the Democratic Party. These are the stories that need to be delivered to the public. Your story is exactly what needs to be brought across about the differences between Republican Trickle down ( by the way does anyone else when they hear or see that think, Oh we get the scraps from the table") and the Democratic Fair share middle out recovery.
    Whenever I hear "trickle down" it makes me think of slimy Republican operatives working behind the scenes of the Reagan Administration working diligently on finding ways to fool the voters.

    It's a ******** phrase like "collateral damage" or "friendly fire"- a flowery expression to describe horrible actions or ideas.
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    Sturm, Evil, My favorite term for that kind of economic policy is the first one that was ever pinned to it back in the 1890's (I think): Horse and Sparrow. The idea was that if the horse was fed well enough it would leave some pretty tasty droppings on the road for the sparrows to pick through. Lol. That's what Romney/Ryan are really trying to do, feed us a load of...

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    Quote Originally Posted by edeevee View Post
    Sturm, Evil, My favorite term for that kind of economic policy is the first one that was ever pinned to it back in the 1890's (I think): Horse and Sparrow. The idea was that if the horse was fed well enough it would leave some pretty tasty droppings on the road for the sparrows to pick through. Lol. That's what Romney/Ryan are really trying to do, feed us a load of...
    Well, since I'm not the first one to bring up the biological imagery, the best political comic I've seen on "Supply Side Economics" (ugh, another euphemism!) shows a bunch of rich fat cats peeing on the poor beneath them, expertly illustrating the very heart of "trickle down".
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    I remember when Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters were on 20/20.

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigB View Post
    I remember when Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters were on 20/20.
    Under the category of sort of interesting and somewhat related ... Hugh Downs talks about a trip he and his wife made to Romania where they met a young poet and her writer husband who lived in a tiny apartment and whose literary works were repressed by their government:

    "They would have loved to have come to the United States, but that was not possible. When our visit was over, they accompanied us to the airport. Before we boarded the plane, I saw a look in her eyes that stabbed me with a pain I had never felt before. I could see that she knew I had in my pocket an article of priceless value: a United States passport. Something deep inside me said, If I ever complain about the U.S. again — its bureaucracy, its red tape, its partisan bickering, its taxation — I hope someone kicks me soundly. Its bureaucracy is mild compared to that of almost anyplace else, its red tape is quite tolerable, its partisan bickering does not result in riots and gunfire, its taxation has full representation — there is nothing to complain about. Not when you put it all into the perspective of the human condition on this planet."

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Remember When Hindsight was 20/20?

    Quote Originally Posted by edeevee View Post
    Under the category of sort of interesting and somewhat related ... Hugh Downs talks about a trip he and his wife made to Romania where they met a young poet and her writer husband who lived in a tiny apartment and whose literary works were repressed by their government:

    "They would have loved to have come to the United States, but that was not possible. When our visit was over, they accompanied us to the airport. Before we boarded the plane, I saw a look in her eyes that stabbed me with a pain I had never felt before. I could see that she knew I had in my pocket an article of priceless value: a United States passport. Something deep inside me said, If I ever complain about the U.S. again — its bureaucracy, its red tape, its partisan bickering, its taxation — I hope someone kicks me soundly. Its bureaucracy is mild compared to that of almost anyplace else, its red tape is quite tolerable, its partisan bickering does not result in riots and gunfire, its taxation has full representation — there is nothing to complain about. Not when you put it all into the perspective of the human condition on this planet."
    I agree with the spirit of Hugh Down's message here edeevee. We indeed are currently living blessed lives here in the US due to the sacrifices and hard fought battles of our forefathers and foremothers. The same enemies of greed, power, and prejudice exist today that existed when they fought and won for us the blessings we now live under. Should we let down our guard and not be diligent in protecting our freedoms, the conditions won could be lost quickly. I don't like to think in such negative directions, yet, I do believe it is important to be realistic. Let us be thankful and hold firm on what being a citizen here in the US means for all of us.
    "It is the power of thought that gives man power over nature."
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