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Thread: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

  1. #161

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    This is about the debt limit, but it should also help explain why Boehner cannot be trusted when it comes to criticizing President Obama when it comes to finances.



    It's short and uses a lot of pictures, so even Tea Party people have no excuse for not comprehending it.
    Very nice but the reality of the situation is that President Obama and the Democrat controlled Senate are the ones who want to spend, spend, spend. Only the Republican House of Representatives stands in the way. Now Obama and the Senate want increases in taxes! Yes, the did get their tax increase in January when rates were raised on those making $450,000 or more. Raising taxes will do nothing to control spending and sure will not help the economy!

  2. #162

    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by MERLE1 View Post
    Very nice but the reality of the situation is that President Obama and the Democrat controlled Senate are the ones who want to spend, spend, spend. Only the Republican House of Representatives stands in the way. Now Obama and the Senate want increases in taxes! Yes, the did get their tax increase in January when rates were raised on those making $450,000 or more. Raising taxes will do nothing to control spending and sure will not help the economy!
    How obvious does it have to be to you that the President doesn't set the budget?
    As an aside taxes weren't raised, tax cuts were allowed to expire, I understand
    your analogy suits your cause better but it simply doesn't hold much truth.
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  3. #163

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by MERLE1 View Post
    Very nice but the reality of the situation is that President Obama and the Democrat controlled Senate are the ones who want to spend, spend, spend. Only the Republican House of Representatives stands in the way. Now Obama and the Senate want increases in taxes! Yes, the did get their tax increase in January when rates were raised on those making $450,000 or more. Raising taxes will do nothing to control spending and sure will not help the economy!
    Seriously, Merle.

    I don't know how old you are, and I have serious doubts as to your grasp of history considering some of your posts here, but think of our debt right now this way:

    In all other times of war, and I'm going FAR back into human history here, warfare has ALWAYS involved an increase in taxes. That's how they get paid for without bankrupting the kingdom or empire that was waging it. Sometimes, rulers made peace with their enemies simply because their noblemen were sick of the tax hikes. Indeed, one of the first huge expenses of the fledgling United States was paying back all the money we had to borrow to fight the Revolutionary War. We began life as a nation in debt, due to war. In World War II we had rationing, bond drives, national sacrifice. The nation felt the burden of war as a whole.

    Then, under Bush and his gang of criminals, for the first time in US history we were involved in two separate wars and not only were taxes NOT raised, they were LOWERED. And no one was asked to sacrifice anything for Bush's wars except our troops. Sacrifice is unpopular and if people felt the bite, they'd question the need for warfare more than any number of flag-draped coffins.

    So Bush and the Republicans lied us into a trillion dollar war, took away the ability to pay for it and nearly bankrupted us (not to mention dealing the world economy a huge blow).

    Is it any ********* wonder we are in such terrible financial shape now? And you want to complain about allowing these shortsighted and incredibly stupid tax cuts to expire?
    Apples are good,
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  4. #164

    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by MERLE1 View Post
    House Speaker John Boehner had a simple message Wednesday for President Obama after he used the bully pulpit to blame Republicans for the "meat cleaver" of looming spending cuts: You created it, you fix it.

    "Having first proposed and demanded the sequester, it would make sense that the president lead the effort to replace it," Boehner wrote in a Wall Street Journal op-ed.
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...after-all.html
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  5. #165

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post

    In all other times of war, and I'm going FAR back into human history here, warfare has ALWAYS involved an increase in taxes. That's how they get paid for without bankrupting the kingdom or empire that was waging it. Sometimes, rulers made peace with their enemies simply because their noblemen were sick of the tax hikes. Indeed, one of the first huge expenses of the fledgling United States was paying back all the money we had to borrow to fight the Revolutionary War. We began life as a nation in debt, due to war. In World War II we had rationing, bond drives, national sacrifice. The nation felt the burden of war as a whole.

    Then, under Bush and his gang of criminals, for the first time in US history we were involved in two separate wars and not only were taxes NOT raised, they were LOWERED. And no one was asked to sacrifice anything for Bush's wars except our troops. Sacrifice is unpopular and if people felt the bite, they'd question the need for warfare more than any number of flag-draped coffins.

    So Bush and the Republicans lied us into a trillion dollar war, took away the ability to pay for it and nearly bankrupted us (not to mention dealing the world economy a huge blow).

    Is it any ********* wonder we are in such terrible financial shape now? And you want to complain about allowing these shortsighted and incredibly stupid tax cuts to expire?
    Another excellent summary done by you Evil. Well said!! I am endlessly stunned at how blind so many of our citizens remain as to the real source of our financial crisis.

    No Adventure has also posted a great link as to how Boehner is packaging and marketing his finger pointing campaign over the sequester at Obama. Twisting and stretching the truth and outright lies are being promoted without flinching by him. If only more of our citizens would demand truth from our politicians and recognize that we ALL are going to pay increases in taxes and cuts in spending until we pay this debt down. We have no option....we must pay this debt.
    "It is the power of thought that gives man power over nature."
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  6. #166

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    $6 trillion of the deb in Obama's 4 years and you people are still blaming Bush! Simply unreal!
    All this money spent and we basically have stood still on the economy since Obama came into office.
    However, with Obama Care coming in we are seeing lay-offs and business places closing.
    Yet you still blame Bush!
    By the way Helen, I am a history major!
    Especially interested in American history!

  7. #167

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by MERLE1 View Post
    $6 trillion of the deb in Obama's 4 years and you people are still blaming Bush! Simply unreal!
    All this money spent and we basically have stood still on the economy since Obama came into office.
    However, with Obama Care coming in we are seeing lay-offs and business places closing.
    Yet you still blame Bush!
    By the way Helen, I am a history major!
    Especially interested in American history!
    Merle, We are well past any value of playing the 'blame game' at this point. History is self evident. The reality we are all looking at now is...'this debt must be paid'. Just as prior generations have needed to do...we now must do also. We must pay our bills. The difference between my logic and yours appears to be that you are in favor of the debt load falling on senior citizens social security and medicare benefits (which we have contributed towards all of our working lives) rather than taxing US corporations who are importing foreign workers to replace US citizens right here on our own lands.

    Social Security and Medicare are insurance programs that US senior citizens have paid into (and/or their employers) for decades. Do you believe that after paying for your own personal insurance for life, home, auto for many, many years, your private insurance company has the right to jerk from you the agreed upon benefits to you simply because they now find themselves in a financial crisis?

    It is great to know that you are a history major because if you look at American History, you will know how our previous wars were paid for. All citizens had to tighten their financial belts (and also those around their bellies) so that our nation could pay its' debt. Paying up is hard to do...but we ALL must.

    Holding Obamacare responsible for the debt crisis we are in at this time is nuts. Obamacare is addressing a much needed medical care crisis for our citizens where we ALL pay the costs. The national debt that is staring us in the face at this time is NOT coming from Obamacare. Obamacare is simply a program offering affordable medical insurance to ALL citizens. Should it eventually add to our national debt...we will see. At this time the costs of Obamacare is not part of our national debt crisis.
    "It is the power of thought that gives man power over nature."
    Hans Christian Anderson

  8. #168

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by MERLE1 View Post
    $6 trillion of the deb in Obama's 4 years and you people are still blaming Bush! Simply unreal!
    All this money spent and we basically have stood still on the economy since Obama came into office.
    However, with Obama Care coming in we are seeing lay-offs and business places closing.
    Yet you still blame Bush!
    By the way Helen, I am a history major!
    Especially interested in American history!
    Then I seriously doubt the merits of whatever school in which you studied.

    You know one of the big parts of that "debt" by Obama was simply including Bush's wars in the books, right? Under Bush, using creative accounting that would make Hollywood studios green with envy, they kept the costs of the war from showing up in the budget deficits. When Obama took office, they did away with those tricks and included the costs, making it look like a HUGE leap in spending.

    If one keeps his mortgage payment off his family budget, his personal finances would be stellar. Same for government, it seems.
    Apples are good,
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    Lemons are rude,
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    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  9. #169
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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    Then I seriously doubt the merits of whatever school in which you studied.

    You know one of the big parts of that "debt" by Obama was simply including Bush's wars in the books, right? Under Bush, using creative accounting that would make Hollywood studios green with envy, they kept the costs of the war from showing up in the budget deficits. When Obama took office, they did away with those tricks and included the costs, making it look like a HUGE leap in spending.

    If one keeps his mortgage payment off his family budget, his personal finances would be stellar. Same for government, it seems.
    If one would submit a budget than maybe we would know what was going on. Been waiting for one well over a thousand days.

  10. #170

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierHelen View Post
    Merle, We are well past any value of playing the 'blame game' at this point. History is self evident. The reality we are all looking at now is...'this debt must be paid'. Just as prior generations have needed to do...we now must do also. We must pay our bills. The difference between my logic and yours appears to be that you are in favor of the debt load falling on senior citizens social security and medicare benefits (which we have contributed towards all of our working lives) rather than taxing US corporations who are importing foreign workers to replace US citizens right here on our own lands.

    Social Security and Medicare are insurance programs that US senior citizens have paid into (and/or their employers) for decades. Do you believe that after paying for your own personal insurance for life, home, auto for many, many years, your private insurance company has the right to jerk from you the agreed upon benefits to you simply because they now find themselves in a financial crisis?

    It is great to know that you are a history major because if you look at American History, you will know how our previous wars were paid for. All citizens had to tighten their financial belts (and also those around their bellies) so that our nation could pay its' debt. Paying up is hard to do...but we ALL must.

    Holding Obamacare responsible for the debt crisis we are in at this time is nuts. Obamacare is addressing a much needed medical care crisis for our citizens where we ALL pay the costs. The national debt that is staring us in the face at this time is NOT coming from Obamacare. Obamacare is simply a program offering affordable medical insurance to ALL citizens. Should it eventually add to our national debt...we will see. At this time the costs of Obamacare is not part of our national debt crisis.
    Helen, you may be over playing the blame game but there are sure others on here who are not I assure you.
    No, I do not want to balance the budget on the backs of our senior citizens, I assure you of that!
    Far from it!
    But there sure are other areas we can cut such as farm subsidies, public radio and tv, a bloated military, foreign aid, etc etc.
    I do not feel the US has to be the policeman of the world and I need to add we can cut a lot of money we pay the UN because most of it is wasted money.
    At the same time, since people are living longer it makes sense to raise the retirement age for future generations.
    I would think 70 for people who are 30-35 at present would be fair.
    PLus I feel the federal government is trying to do way too much!
    Many areas could be cut back.

  11. #171

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    Then I seriously doubt the merits of whatever school in which you studied.

    You know one of the big parts of that "debt" by Obama was simply including Bush's wars in the books, right? Under Bush, using creative accounting that would make Hollywood studios green with envy, they kept the costs of the war from showing up in the budget deficits. When Obama took office, they did away with those tricks and included the costs, making it look like a HUGE leap in spending.

    If one keeps his mortgage payment off his family budget, his personal finances would be stellar. Same for government, it seems.
    Amazing how this has become more about me than about issues!
    But to answer your question-Indiana University and St. Francis College.
    By law the President is supposed to submit a budget.
    Where is it?
    The Senate has yet to submit a budget!
    The House has submitted budgets in the past 3 years.
    So what exactly is the plan of the President and the Senate to balance the budget?
    No one really knows because we have never seen a budget!

  12. #172

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by MERLE1 View Post
    Helen, you may be over playing the blame game but there are sure others on here who are not I assure you.
    No, I do not want to balance the budget on the backs of our senior citizens, I assure you of that!
    Far from it!
    But there sure are other areas we can cut such as farm subsidies, public radio and tv, a bloated military, foreign aid, etc etc.
    I do not feel the US has to be the policeman of the world and I need to add we can cut a lot of money we pay the UN because most of it is wasted money.
    At the same time, since people are living longer it makes sense to raise the retirement age for future generations.
    I would think 70 for people who are 30-35 at present would be fair.
    PLus I feel the federal government is trying to do way too much!
    Many areas could be cut back.
    I'm amazed that we at least agree our military budget is bloated. Frankly, we could cut it in half and still far outspend more than China.

    RAISE RETIREMENT TO 70?

    I can only imagine your employment doesn't require a lot of hard manual labor, Merle, so perhaps you can't understand what it's like for those who do it. But for someone whose job requires lifting, bending, walking or standing for eight hour shifts, the older he gets, the worse those extra three to five years you're proposing.

    If this were truly a "Christian" nation, those who pretend to follow those teachings would be up in arms about any cuts to our social services. Instead we see a lot of CINO (Christians In Name Only) who gleefully cheer anything that hurts the poor, sick and elderly.

    As to the Feds doing too much, would it be too much of an assumption on my part to assume that you're against gay marriage and the right to abortions? If so, it sounds like you prefer plenty of government intervention as long as it's something you personally believe in.

    It's like Angola's strip club. The guy bought the place when it was legal for him to put it in. Then, spurred on by the local churches, the city passed legislation to deny him the right to do his business. Again, sounds like plenty of anti-government folks are just fine with too much government if it helps enforce their personal biases.
    Apples are good,
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    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  13. #173

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    I'm amazed that we at least agree our military budget is bloated. Frankly, we could cut it in half and still far outspend more than China.

    RAISE RETIREMENT TO 70?

    I can only imagine your employment doesn't require a lot of hard manual labor, Merle, so perhaps you can't understand what it's like for those who do it. But for someone whose job requires lifting, bending, walking or standing for eight hour shifts, the older he gets, the worse those extra three to five years you're proposing.

    If this were truly a "Christian" nation, those who pretend to follow those teachings would be up in arms about any cuts to our social services. Instead we see a lot of CINO (Christians In Name Only) who gleefully cheer anything that hurts the poor, sick and elderly.

    As to the Feds doing too much, would it be too much of an assumption on my part to assume that you're against gay marriage and the right to abortions? If so, it sounds like you prefer plenty of government intervention as long as it's something you personally believe in.

    It's like Angola's strip club. The guy bought the place when it was legal for him to put it in. Then, spurred on by the local churches, the city passed legislation to deny him the right to do his business. Again, sounds like plenty of anti-government folks are just fine with too much government if it helps enforce their personal biases.
    I am most certainly not against helping the poor, sick and elderly! Not in the slighest against it, I am all for it as a matter of fact!
    But the federal government is the least efficient of all levels of government.
    By the time the federal government gets aid to those who truly need it, how much of the original money is left?
    As for Angola, that was a local decision, not a federal or state.

  14. #174
    HomeyG Guest

    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by MERLE1 View Post
    I am most certainly not against helping the poor, sick and elderly! Not in the slighest against it, I am all for it as a matter of fact!
    But the federal government is the least efficient of all levels of government.
    By the time the federal government gets aid to those who truly need it, how much of the original money is left?
    As for Angola, that was a local decision, not a federal or state.
    Sounds like the same scare tactic I hear from the President and members of Congress.

  15. #175

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by MERLE1 View Post
    The lights went out in the Super Dome! I suppose you blame Bush for this as well?
    Come on, in 2012 you really believe there was massive amounts of voter repression by the Republicans in several states?
    Seriously now!
    Hate to dredge up an old subject but I guess the GOP was right. Voter fraud is a problem:

    By Ed Brayton: Florida has convicted two former employees of Strategic Allied Consulting, one of the many sockpuppet companies owned by Nathan Sproul, the Republican voter registration guru who has gotten in all kinds of hot water around the country, for voter registration fraud.

    The Florida Department of Law Enforcement reported Tuesday that the two ex-employees were charged with a third degree felony. But prosecutors back in January decided to place both of them on probation because neither has a criminal history.
    Strategic Allied Consulting was hired by Republicans to do voter registration drives in Florida and other states. But last fall, the state party fired the company and took the additional step of filing an election fraud complaint against the company with state officials.
    This does not end the investigation into Strategic Allied. There are four other cases across the state still under investigation according to FDLE.
    But Frederick Petti, an attorney who represents the company, said he’s already been told by law-enforcement authorities that the investigation is focused on no more than six employees. He said Strategic Allied had roughly 2,000 employees in Florida and said the end result shows that the controversy was a “tempest in a teapot.”
    “What this comes down to is that we had had a few employees who were not good employees,” Petti said. “They were filling out fake forms.”

    Which is exactly the same thing that happened with ACORN. The difference, though, is that in every case where an ACORN canvasser was caught turning in fraudulent voter registration forms, it was ACORN itself that turned them in. As far as I know, that was not the case with Sproul’s company. And Sproul has been accused of far worse, both in Florida and elsewhere. One of the convicted canvassers in Florida says that he was told not to register Democrats, which is the same thing another of their employees said on tape saying to a prospective voter in Colorado.
    After those problems in Colorado and Florida, the Republican National Committee made a big public show of firing Strategic Allied Consulting, saying that they would not tolerate such fraud. So SAC simply changed their name and kept right on going in as many as 30 states. And in Virginia, they just took the same employees from SAC and moved them in-house to continue the operation. A supervisor who worked first for SAC and then for the Virginia GOP was caught throwing voter registration forms in the garbage
    By any measurement, this is considerably worse than ACORN. So I’m sure the GOP will be pushing for a law forbidding Sproul and all of his dummy companies from getting any federal funds, right? And they’ll make sure that no Sproul-owned company, using any name, is working for them in 2014 and 2016, right? Yeah, I didn’t think so.
    Also:
    Oregon Election Worker Fired for Altering Ballots to Republican candidates. In a press release on Monday, Clackamas County spokesperson Tim Heider said that 55-year-old Deanna Swenson an election worker was filling in blank spots on ballots for Mitt Romney.
    “People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” -Soren Kierkegaard

  16. #176

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    There seems no doubt the Democratic Party is just adicted to spending! If they can't spend they have no idea what to do!
    Reminds me of old Vance Hartke who could come back to Indiana and talk about all the things he voted for and would vote for and they all cost money!
    So the Democrat US Senate finally takes up a budget and look at this:
    Senate Democrats' budget plan is coming under increasing criticism from Republicans, who say it effectively pats itself on the back twice for savings that were only achieved once -- and even then, promises another $7.3 trillion in debt over the next decade.

    The Democrats' plan passed out of committee last week on a party-line vote. It serves as the party's response to the Republican plan introduced in the House by Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin.

  17. #177

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by MERLE1 View Post
    There seems no doubt the Democratic Party is just adicted to spending! If they can't spend they have no idea what to do!
    Reminds me of old Vance Hartke who could come back to Indiana and talk about all the things he voted for and would vote for and they all cost money!
    So the Democrat US Senate finally takes up a budget and look at this:
    Senate Democrats' budget plan is coming under increasing criticism from Republicans, who say it effectively pats itself on the back twice for savings that were only achieved once -- and even then, promises another $7.3 trillion in debt over the next decade.

    The Democrats' plan passed out of committee last week on a party-line vote. It serves as the party's response to the Republican plan introduced in the House by Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin.
    The Republican National Committee would be thrilled to see you still believe they are the "responsible spending" party.
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  18. #178

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    I just love how republican's just conveniently forget that Bush left us at the doorstep of complete financial ruin. Two wars completely unfunded, a "let them run wild" atmosphere for the banking industry. Of course President Obama has had to run up the debt. He had to spend money in order for this country to survive the worse financial crisis since the great depression. Oh, but that is old news and long forgotten. Now the republican party feels that the only possible way we can get our house in order is to cut "free stuff" ie social security ect. and not touch the rich. Make the middle class work to 70 or 72 but don't you dare tax trades on wall street. Cut medical benefits to the elderly and disabled but you **** well will not cut subsidies to Oil companies. How would they be able put food on the table at Mobil if they didn't get their subsidies.

    And on the subject of "free stuff" I am so sick of Social Security being labeled free stuff. I have paid in f.i.c.a. taxes since my first day of work.
    Mitch McConnell: “The President’s more than willing to negotiate with Iranians, I don’t know why he wouldn’t be willing to negotiate with us.”

    Jon Stewart: “If it turns out that President Barack Obama can make a deal with the most intransigent, hard-lined, unreasonable totalitarian mullahs in the world, but not the Republicans, maybe he’s not the problem.”

  19. #179

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by sturmtiger View Post
    I just love how republican's just conveniently forget that Bush left us at the doorstep of complete financial ruin. Two wars completely unfunded, a "let them run wild" atmosphere for the banking industry. Of course President Obama has had to run up the debt. He had to spend money in order for this country to survive the worse financial crisis since the great depression. Oh, but that is old news and long forgotten. Now the republican party feels that the only possible way we can get our house in order is to cut "free stuff" ie social security ect. and not touch the rich. Make the middle class work to 70 or 72 but don't you dare tax trades on wall street. Cut medical benefits to the elderly and disabled but you **** well will not cut subsidies to Oil companies. How would they be able put food on the table at Mobil if they didn't get their subsidies.

    And on the subject of "free stuff" I am so sick of Social Security being labeled free stuff. I have paid in f.i.c.a. taxes since my first day of work.
    Didn't you know that deficit spending is only bad when it is the Democrats?
    Apples are good,
    Oranges are bad,
    Lemons are rude,
    Bananas are perverted,
    And kumquats are just, plain evil...

  20. #180

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    Default Re: Ranking the presidents: Truman to obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkumquat View Post
    Didn't you know that deficit spending is only bad when it is the Democrats?
    Silly me how could I forget.
    Mitch McConnell: “The President’s more than willing to negotiate with Iranians, I don’t know why he wouldn’t be willing to negotiate with us.”

    Jon Stewart: “If it turns out that President Barack Obama can make a deal with the most intransigent, hard-lined, unreasonable totalitarian mullahs in the world, but not the Republicans, maybe he’s not the problem.”

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